Adjusting arrow impact point.

[Easykeeper]

How do you bring a natural impact point on to the target without aiming?  I am "on" at about five yards and thirty, high on everything in between.  It's like I have a natural "instinctive" sight picture that produces decent groups, just in the wrong place.  In scientific terms my shooting is precise (tight groups) but not accurate (hitting the spot).

When I shoot "instinctive", I tend to shoot high.  Three different bows, arrows tuned to each bow, always high.  At twenty yards if i shoot a group it's 6" - 12" over my intended target.  If I try to "gap", my accuracy suffers (groups are bigger) although I can bring the arrows down a bit.

I shoot split finger and would like to stay with it.  It's how I learned as a kid and just feels natural.  When I shoot three under with a little higher nock point, I tend to not shoot so high, but it just feels unnatural and I don't like the noise and vibration in the bows.  I'm also slower and definitely have to "aim" shooting three under.  Shooting split, and only looking at the target produces the smallest groups, just too high.

[Northwest_Bowhunter]

Have you seen any of the Masters of the BareBow series?

[TAWL]

I seem to have this issue also. I moved my nocking point up to 3/4" which to me seems very high. It seems to help a little. But I'm curious what others have to say about this.

[Easykeeper]

I haven't seen the discs.  I'd like too and intend to include at least one on my next order.  

Is there one in particular that was helpful to you or do you need to see them in order?

[BowsanAiros]

[Onlyaspike]

Heavier arrows or maybe try and switch to shooting 3 under...I know you said its not as comfortable but you might get use to it after a short while. Another option is to raise your anchor/hold.....ie. ...if your anchoring with your index finger in the corner of your mouth try and use your middle finger instead...that will bring your POI down.

[Terry Green]

How long have you been shooting?

[Easykeeper]

I've been participating in some kind of archery most of my life, I'm 52.  Grew up on recurves, the typical solid fiber glass type as a kid to the nicer ones as I got older.  I've been shooting mostly compounds for the last few years.  I think as I come back to non-assisted shooting it's the form and practices, both good and bad, that I developed then that I'm using now.

It's really hard to change what feels natural.  I should probably do a self-intervention and try to reprogram my shot.  It's just that archery is so relaxing, I'd hate to actually work at it...LOL.  Just kidding, I do want to get my issue figured out.

[fivebears]

I have the same problem.I've been shooting for 6 yrs.and I've waited for my brain to reprogram and adjust my "natural" or "instinctive" sight picture but it never happened.I switched to 3 under and shoot more of a gap method,noticing the tip of my arrow in my sight picture,and I can keep my shots lower.

[Northwest_Bowhunter]

I believe Masters of the Barebow 2 talks about aiming.  Easykeeper, we are about the same age and while I still shoot split finger I did change just about everything else about how I shoot after being on this site.  Trust me when I say it will become natural faster then you could imagine with a bit (read a lot) of work. But it doesn't have to take long to get back to the comfort you currently have.

[Easykeeper]

Thanks for the encouragement.  I'm working up an order and will include the Barebow discs.  Probably should have done it a while ago.

I could just go with three under, I can shoot pretty well that way.  It just does not seem as fluid and natural for me.  Since the arrow is right there in my vision, I cannot avoid a more conscious style of aiming.  There's lots of good things about the three under style, I'm not sure why I'm so negative toward it.  I was going to title this thread "I hate three under" but decided I didn't have any good reason to dislike it except for the small amount of extra noise.   I guess it's just a mind set...or stubbornness...

[Northwest_Bowhunter]

I think you should also take a look at "Bowhunters of Trad Gang" in the Tradgang store, this helped me with form questions as well as hunting tips.

[FrankM]

Did you also view the videos and comments on this thread?

 http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=003820

[mahantango]

This is really hard to understand. There is only one correct nock point for any given shooter/bow/arrow combination. To raise your nock point to try to lower your point of impact seems counterproductive, as does switching to 3-under for that same reason. All this will do is change your point-on, as will changing your anchor point. IMO, gapping - even if only temporarily - is the easiest way to program your brain/eye/hand for various distances. Its your "sight picture" that needs to change. You might as well look down the arrow, cause thats where it's going.

[Don Stokes]

Easykeeper, just keep at it and it will come to you. Practice, practice, practice, and don't de-tune your bow by messing with the nocking point or changing to 3 under. It's just a matter of programming your gray matter, and only practice will do that for you.

And there's nothing wrong with "aiming". We all do it, whether intentional or not. In some form it's unavoidable. There's no such thing as truly "instinctive" accurate shooting, no matter what some folks might say. It's all learned response.

[Easykeeper]

Just came in from shooting and I think I found one of my problems.  Tonight I tried to slow down and make sure I draw to my face/anchor point instead of drawing and dipping my head to my hand/anchor point (something I know I do).  I did try to pay a little more attention to the arrow too.  Not exactly aiming but just being a little more methodical in setting up my shot and really trying to focus on a small spot.  I usually shoot at big plain hay bales so it's easy to shoot at the whole bale instead of a little piece of the bail.  I'm still a bit high but much closer to where I was "aiming".  

I don't mean to sound overly negative on the aiming idea but the more I consciously aim something that doesn't actually have a sighting system the more erratic my results.  You don't really aim a shotgun, baseball, basketball, frisbee...with these more instinctive type of projectiles it seems the more you can get out of the way of your brain, once you have some degree of basic skill, the better off you are.  Right now I have some issue, or issues with that basic skill.  That's what I need to nail down.  I think Don nailed it when he said "it's all a learned response".  When I slow down I get more of the little things right.  Hopefully in time they will become "instinctive" again.    

The only reason I change my nock point is because if I shoot three under, I get better arrow flight and bare shafts group closer to fletched if I move my nock point up about 3/16".  I don't do it to try and change my impact point.  Just moving the nock point depending on if I'm shooting split or three under.

[Jock Whisky]

If your equipment is tuned properly and your form is correct and consistent (ie are shooting groups) then there is only one answer and that is the trajectory of your arrow. Given no change in equipment the only way to change to a lower impact point is to lower the pointy end of the arrow, raise the nock end or a combination of both.

Your "natural instinctive sight picture" results in arrows that impact high. I suggest lowering your bow arm slightly or perhaps a better way of looking at it is don't bring it up so far. It's what you would do if you shot with a sight. I had/have the same problem and found that no matter how many arrows I shot the arrows always impacted high. It was only when I consciously re learned the sight picture that things changed.

Any skill is a learned process. As you improve you have to CONSCIOUSLY change, adjust and tweak. The so called "instinctive" comes later. Think of how you learned to drive a car or ride a bike  Lots of conscious activity at first. Now you don't even think about it. Instinctive driving/riding. Same thing.

Learning to shoot the stickbow is a conscious thing. You can't just continue to shoot and expect the arrows to start magically impacting lower. That's voodoo. You must make the adjustments consciously during this stage. The brain will not do it on its own until after you have trained it. And no, it won't feel natural for a while but neither did driving, riding a bike or even walking for that matter.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

JW

[fivebears]

wished I'd read this thread 6 years ago,lol.

[Don Stokes]

Easykeeper, if you get better arrow flight when shooting three under, I suggest you go up a bit in arrow spine, or shorten your arrows a bit for split shooting. When the nocking point is high, you can shoot lower spine cleanly. A high nocking point robs energy from your arrow, allowing lower spine to shoot well. Either that or you have fletching clearance problems. You might try turning the cock feather in when shooting split, to see if flight improves.

[Easykeeper]

Jock I think you are right.  I'm trying to re-program what I see in my peripheral vision and making some progress.  I think it will come in time.  It will be interesting to see what happens when I get done with the wood arrows I'm working on.  I used to shoot wood before my journey through the compound camp where I started shooting alum/carbon composite arrows.  When I came back to my recurve I stayed with the ACCs.  Coincidently the same spine I used in my compounds works for my recurves as long as I use a longer shaft.  Beautiful arrow material, but my arrows weigh a bit over 500 grains which I'm pretty sure is lighter than the wood arrows I used to shoot.  Someone earlier mentioned trying heavier arrows...

Don - Thanks for the tip on spine in regards to split or three under.  I hadn't thought of that.  Even though I feel more comfortable shooting split, three under gives a very clean release and consistently good arrow flight.  I thought it was my index finger dragging on the arrow when I shoot split, but I will keep your idea in mind.

Really good input from everyone on this thread.  Thanks a bunch.