Who else has this problem with the clock?

[Lee Lobbestael]

I agree with Terry's clock form, that it has gotta be the most accurate way to shoot. But I can't fully get into the clock form. My string hand elbow will not pull into line, no matter what I do! I have tried in front of a mirror and just cannot pull that elbow into line. When I try to on the range arrows go everywhere! Anybody else have this situation going on?

[McDave]

Usually the problem you describe arises because you are pulling back with your arm muscles instead of around with your back muscles.  Your string arm shoulder blade should move toward your backbone, and your string arm elbow should move in an arc (sort of a semi-circle) until it is behind the arrow. You should feel like your whole forearm is just an inert link in a chain being stretched between the pull of the bowstring in one direction and the opposing pull of your shoulder and back muscles in the other.  You should feel your shoulder blade move toward your backbone until it reaches a stopping point where it can't move anymore. Try standing in front of a mirror without a bow and imagine yourself drawing a bow using your back muscles, feel your shoulder blade move over toward your backbone until it can't move anymore, and see if your string forearm lines up with your imaginary arrow.

The advantage of having your string forearm in line with the arrow is that as you continue to increase back tension until the arrow is released, and assuming you don't do anything at the last moment to jerk the arrow off course, the arrow pretty much has to fly where you're looking and not off to the right or to the left.

[Green]

Lee - I had this same problem...my shoulder wouldn't rotate around no matter what.  I moved my anchor point from middle finger in the corner of my mouth to middle finger directly under the cheekbone. This move up/out put my shoulder and draw arm in a better position to rotate and allowed me to get not only in better alignment, but to achieve a much higher degree of back tension, and greater accuracy quickly followed.

[McDave]

That's a good point, Rob.  In selecting an anchor point, we should first get into good allignment and then see where our string hand ends up.  It may well be that our fingertip is nowhere near the corner of our mouth, but there should be something we can use for an anchor.  You gave an example of something that works for you.  Some folks use the thumb knuckle behind the cheekbone.  I adjust the position of the feathers on my arrows so the cock feather touches my nose at full draw, and my thumb knuckle brushes the bottom of my earlobe.  There are probably many other possible anchors one could use.

[Terry Green]

Good responses....

Also, I've said it before, we are all built different, and it may be unobtainable for some....but the idea is to get as in line as your body will allow.

Stay after it!

   

[Lee Lobbestael]

Thanks guys! Yeah Terry I have tried moving my anchor point back farther and Still cannot line that darn forearm up! Also anchors behind my mouth anywhere do not feel natural at all to me and result in alot of shaking around

[Green]

It's amazing what you find out when you start messing around.  The best is at least a double anchor...after reaching my cheekbone my rotation takes my thumbknuckle to the base of my ear as I rotate my shoulder around....once my thumb has reached its' point I know my alignment is almost straight and a little further rotation and the arrow is on its' way downrange.

Also.....other peculiarities such as when you go from a soft anchor point like the corner of your mouth...to a hard one such as I did on the cheekbone...your point of impact will be different with a tab and a glove...due to the distance the string can be from your actual anchor point (further away with a glove like the big shot which has thick finger tips).  This puts your point of impact a little to the left for a RH shooter so you have to adjust your alignment/rotation somewhat.  There are lots of nuances to good shooting once you've gotten the basics down.  

Right here and now I'd like to say a huge Thank You to Terry.  He set me on the proper path several months ago and his wisdom, friendship, and guidance were invaluable.  And I still have quite a ways to go.

[FrankM]

Originally posted by Lee Lobbestael:
Thanks guys! Yeah Terry I have tried moving my anchor point back farther and Still cannot line that darn forearm up! Also anchors behind my mouth anywhere do not feel natural at all to me and result in alot of shaking around

If you take some pics you can post them on photobucket for free and link them here.

[KyStickbow]

I am having the same problem. It's like my body doesn't want to go all the around into position. I just kinda find that sweet spot.

[ishoot4thrills]

I have trouble with this as well. I think people's bodies are different and, like Terry said, "the idea is to get as in line as your body will allow".

When I try to bring my elbow back farther, I start hitting my nose and it gets all bloody, and then my groups turn into "patterns" instead of groups. I also believe that a higher anchor tends to make it more difficult to achieve good alignment than does a lower anchor. In my wheelie bow days, I anchored way down around my neck with my release and I used a peep way up on the string and I had no trouble with getting proper alignment and good follow through. But with fingers and a high anchor I find it more difficult to get that elbow back "properly".

One thing that I have improved on through experimentation from Terry's clock explanation is that my release is now more dynamic, instead of static, more so than it used to be.

[fmscan]

Lee, I love to shoot my longbow but at times I thought of taking up knitting. I too had your problem, after a lot of advice and reading on Trad Gang, I realized that I was not drawing with my back muscles and I moved my anchor pt. from the corner of mouth to cheekbone as McDave and Green suggested, and it really helped a lot. Also, Moebow suggested only practicing form which should not be done while shooting at a target. It took a few weeks of shooting into bale at 5ft with eyes closed and ONLY working on form. If you have the right form then your target shooting will greatly improve. I now practice form ONLY at least 4 times a week. I draw concentrating on a spot, get to my anchor, close my eyes, concentrate on back muscles and letting the string leave my fingers. I actually enjoy seeing if I come close to spot that I concentrated on. It is still a work in progress but things are much better, and in my case I was doing it wrong for 40 yrs, and you cant correct a habit of that in a short time.

[Lee Lobbestael]

fmscan, Thanks for the advice! but I have tried moving my anchor back and focusing on drawing with my back muscles, but that elbow just doesnt want to do it! Might just have to get as close as possible and call it good

[Green]

Lee.....have you tried moving your anchor up?  This is what it took for me to be able to get into better alignment.  I moved from middle finger in corner of mouth to index on front of cheekbone.  This moved my anchor up and out.....and allowed my draw arm/shoulder to rotate further around.

[Lee Lobbestael]

I have messed around with an anchor on my cheek but it doesnt seem friendly to me

[Terry Green]

Please be aware...The elbow doesn't just 'come back farther'...it comes around in a 'J' shape(yellow J).  Do not be afraid to 'cozy up' to your anchor.

     


BODY POSITION :

Not this.....

       

But this...

       

Not this(red line)...this causes a 'fly away' release and bow torque.

   

[Lee Lobbestael]

Thanks Terry! That clock has helped alot of shooters!