Is it practical to use Olympic form for a longbow?

[Patience]

I’ve been hunting with a longbow for a few years and I’m not a bad shot but would like to be better. I seem to get to a certain point and cannot tighten my groups. I was at the range last week and had the opportunity to talk with one of the instructors that I know. He watched me shoot for a while and provided me with some very useful information/tips on how to fix certain inconsistencies that he noticed.
  We talked for a bit longer and he told me that he is a strong proponent of the Olympic form that he teaches his students and I should give it a try. I have seen his students shoot and they do well, but they are also shooting center shot, long riser, recurves. Not wanting to seem rude after asking for advice, I gave it a try. Once I passed the awkward stage of changing were and how I anchor I noticed an almost instant difference. The left/ right flyers were gone and my arrows would either be tight or in a straight line down the centre of the target.
  I’m a hunter first and still a little skeptical about apply this form in a hunting situation. I can see the drawbacks but also the advantages. I do not know a single person that shoots a longbow in this fashion and I’m trying to figure out why before I invest too much time in this technique.

[alaninoz]

I try to use the same form with my longbows as the Olympic recurve shooters - but note I said try! The only change I consciously make is that I anchor in the corner of the mouth rather than under the chin. It works for me.

[moebow]

I am a big fan of what we call here the NTS (National Training System).  I apply much of the NTS form to traditional shooting with a fair amount of success.  There are some differences that I suggest, such as a side of face anchor rather than under the jaw for example.  The videos I have done are applications of this system.  If you have not seen them, do a search here on the "shooter's forum" for a thread called "Release Tips" for a link to 6 videos that I have there.

Or just go to YouTube and do a search for TheMoebow1.

Arne

[Terry Green]

Proper alignment and bone on bone structure is good form.

I think what you are referring to is 'style'.  Good form is good form....and good form can be used in many styles.

[Patience]

Thanks guys.

Terry couldn't agree more. Proper consistent alignment leads to good form and good form is good form. It’s just that this style is completely different than what I’m use to using and I’m trying to find out the most I can before diving to deep. Like I said I do not know one traditional shooter that shoots under the chin. Why?

Arne thanks for the videos, very insightful. But it still leads me to a question; why do you anchor on the side of your face as opposed to under the chin? Personal preference? Under the chin obviously leads to a different reference point, i.e. bow as apposed to arrow. I’m just trying to get to the why of the side face anchor vs. under the chin and any implications within the realm of hunting.

Personally I have always referenced the arrow, just easier/quicker I guess. But I found that with a couple very thin strips of duck tape on my fades, my bow referencing is just as simple and quick. This Style offers me two aiming points (if I can say that, everything is peripheral vision). One is the bow reference (up/down) and the other is the string reference (left/right). It also offers a double anchor reference, fingers under chin and string on nose.

Thanks again and any info insight is always welcome

[Brianlocal3]

It's funny you posted this. I was going to post almost an identical topic. I went to my first archery lesson ever tonight. I've only been shooting for 23 years so why not.

I have the Rick welch video (II) and was trying to fix some inconsistencies, but I needed another eye. Our local shop owner was an Olympic shooter in the 70s and he teaches COMPLETLY different then anything I've ever done. He worked with Earl Hoyt back in the day. (I'm 20 min from Mr.  Hoyts old house) Jack shoots a earl Hoyt trophy prototype from back then and he also shoots the decked out Olympic rigs.  

His biggest form fix for me was to work on my grip and my draw arm. My draw elbow was too low ( it was straight back) so he wanted me to rotate it a bit and get the forarm above the upper arm , not parallel to it. And my grip.  

My grip, this is the hardest pill to swallow. He is having me tuck my the pinkie, ring and middle finger back, with a bent wrist and pressure on the lifeline. I get the palm down, I did that before. But the finger tuck is what I did with a compound. Everything I read about straight grip says to actually HOLD the bow. Now, once I got it down I did not feel anymore hand shock or thump than before.  But it goes counter-intuitive to everything I've ever heard or read before.

I have watched moebows videos and it looks like he actually HOLDS the bow. I am going to give it an honest try but I'm not sure about it.

He did teach for hunting type shots to anchor corner of the mouth area, but everything else was right out of the NTS stuff I have read.

[moebow]

Patience,

Don't confuse anchor point with a shooting form.  The form is the same just the anchor location changes.  The FITA/Oly target shooters use it first because it is a little stronger position for their (sometimes) longer holds. Second, they use it because they are using sights and the under the jaw anchor helps with sight location/placement for clearance on the bow.  IF you aim by referencing off the bow then it will work too but...

I use a side of face anchor because it gives smaller gaps, and is MUCH faster and allows better references on the face.  The under the jaw anchor is less definitive(harder to find).

Arne

[moebow]

Brianlocal3,

I posted pictures of a grip like you learned about tonight.  Do a search here for a thread called "grip question" -- you'll find pictures of the grip, or very close to what you got.

Arne

[Brianlocal3]

Thank you. I was going to Internet stalk you (lol) and try to get in touch with you on this topic. Thanks. Also your videos are done very well. Thank you for taking the time to do them Sir.

[Brianlocal3]

I just looked it up and YEP. Thats it. In your videos of the hill bow it looks like you have more of a "hold" on the bow. I bookmarked that page. He was having me tuck my last 3 fingers more, but even Jack said after I learn it my fingers will JUST rest on it.

[moebow]

I'm very "stalk-able"          

Feel free.

Arne

[moebow]

Yes, on my straight griped bows, I lay the fingers down on the back of the grip.  BUT, the pressure of the bow is onto the base of the thumb and the fingers are really just relaxed to the back.  I find this a little more secure than the "full NTS" grip in the less controlled conditions we usually encounter in the field.  Either way is good,  but I feel that falling into the trap of "catching" the bow on release should be avoided.

Arne

[Patience]

Arne thanks, that's the why I was looking for.

[Jock Whisky]

Patience said it. Good form is good form! Too often I hear people say "oh that's target archery. We're hunters and we shoot instinctive." BIG mistake. Just because we're hunters doesn't mean we don't need to payt attention to good form. Trad is more than staring at a target, yankin' 'er back and letting 'er fly.

The fundamentals of archery are the same for all shooting be it olympic target shooting or 3D or field or hunting.

Here's an analogy. When hockey players started taking a page out of the figure skaters book their skating went to a whole new level and they became better hockey players. Hockey and figure skating are two different sports but the fundamentals of skating are the same. When trad shooters take a page out of the target shooters book, the same thing happens.

If you want to see a good example of trad and good form watch Jimmy Blackmon (Ranger B)among others.

Just my rant. Take it for what it's worth.

JW

[Jock Whisky]

oops, Moebow is another good example. Sorry Arne

JW

[Brianlocal3]

Jack,
Awsome analogy  sadly I was the former who thought target and hunting archery do not mesh  not any more. Thank you all do much

[Terry Green]

Jock,

I think too many think that good form is standing straight up....BIG MISTAKE....good form is good form no matter how you are standing.

And, 'shooting instinctive' is an aiming method....not form.

Good form belongs in BOTH camps...but make no mistake, hunting is NOT target shooting.    

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

JW,

Excellent post, and I couldn't agree more.

[Jock Whisky]

Terry I agree that target shooting and bowhunting are different. Same as hockey and figure skating. What I am saying is that the fundamentals of good shooting are common to both and we shouldn't fall into the trap of ignoring them just because we are hunters and not target shooters.

All the best
JW

[Terry Green]

Yep!!!.....I just want to make sure folks know that good form is not from just standing straight up.  That's a broad brush statement. This is preached by many and its just not the case. I see lots of folks with bad form standing straight up....and I see a lot of folks NOT standing straight up that DO have good form.  

Nothing wrong with either way, I've killed stuff canting, severe canting, straight up, and even reverse canting.  Actually, it serves the bowhunter better to be able to shoot from multiple cant angles.

That's the beauty of good form....you can take it with you in various positions....its not restrictive to a statuesque regiment.

Again, I'm not knocking standing straight up(shot many animals that way)....I'm just saying its not a requirement for good form....and maybe the title should be 'Olympic STYLE' instead of form.