Thoughts on "Digging in to your anchor?"

[jonsimoneau]

Deer season is over here in Illinois. So I've been using the time to shoot close range blind bale shooting in the basement working on form.  One thing I have heard from very successful shooters is to really dig into your anchor point.  I'm kinda starting to disagree with this at least for myself.  I'm the type of shooter that needs to "hold" before the shot goes off.  I put the word "hold" in quotations because we all know we should not really hold but continue to pull when we hit anchor right? right.  But here is the problem for me and maybe others.  If we get to anchor and really "dig" into it, it is very likely that we will try to hold rather than continue to pull and will collapse before the shot  What do you guys think?

[moebow]

Jon,

What you are describing is essentially correct IF you are using a linear - arm muscle draw.  By continuing to contract the arm muscles, your hand will move on your face.  The problem many find with this is that the long muscles of the arm are not as repeatable for position as using the back muscles and getting the bones involved.

If you are using a rotational draw concept that truly uses the back muscles, here is what happens.  Think of a gas engine.  The piston travels in a straight line up and down in the cylinder.  But the piston connected to the cam shaft comes essentially to a stop at the top and bottom of the stroke.  It is stopped at the point where the cam shaft is moving perpendicular to the bore of the cylinder. So even though the piston has stopped the cam shaft is still moving (rotating).

Using the rotational draw concept, our string hand can (and should) stop at our references (anchor) BUT the string elbow and shoulder are continuing to move perpendicular to the line of the arrow just like the cam in the engine.

This elbow and shoulder movement is very small but it does continue to move but the string hand does not.

So I'm with the others that says a solid face reference is very important to consistent shooting.  My claim is that for EVERY 1/8th inch of difference in sting hand position at release from shot to shot results in about an 8 inch error at the 20 yard target.

Arne

PS.  This is also a reason I am not in favor of the "push-pull" Theory.  That technique implies a linear motion rather than a rotational motion.  Linear motion by definition and by ergonomics does not effectively use the back. IMO

[Terry Green]

I don't see a problem with a linear draw....neither did HH.  Getting to proper alignment in all that matters, whether from over the top or from around.  Some folks come over the top and don't come down far enouh causing torque and stress on their bow arm, and sometimes their bow arm elbow AND bow hand are above the shoulder line....and that's a no no.

I'm NOT sure what you mean by 'digging in'....I use the term 'cozy up'. The elbow does NOT continue rearward....but comes around making a J shape like in the Form Clock Thread, and like Mo said, the anchor just evolves rearward on the J movement and not straight back a lot at all.

[jonsimoneau]

I guess what I mean by "digging in" is the same thing Terry means by "cozy up."  The problem I am seeing is the more I "cozy up" to my anchor the more I seem likely to collapse before release but when I just light touch my anchor I continue with back tension and rotation.  Again I am the type of shooter that "holds" for a few full seconds to let my sight picture settle.  Does this make sense?

[skilonbw]

I find if I cozy too much, I end up starting to tear the skin at the end of the nose so I cozy but not as tight as others due to my big nose.

[Terry Green]

I cozy up...but I don't DIG IN.

[58WINTERS]

I believe you meant crankshaft moe.
58

[moebow]

58, yep, thanks.  I was in  archery coach mode, not mechanic mode.          

Arne

[Trumpkin the Dwarf]

Terry, how do you "cozy up" to your anchor in the very short time you are at full draw? Having seen videos of you shooting, I think I may be misunderstanding this idea.

[gringol]

if you "cozy up" and the string hits your face, you are probably turning your face into the string. or movin your head to reach anchor instead of pulling the string to your face.

[Terry Green]

I use a double anchor...and here's how I get there....

Under normal hunting circumstances I have the bow up already in position to shoot, not like my back yard videos here where I'm swing drawing...but I get there the same no matter what technique I use...

I draw the arrow to ME...I am already set and aiming with my eyes, kinda like when you spot an animal and want to view it from your binos...you keep your eye on the animal and bring the glassed to you....that way the animal is in view through the glass.

I don't draw over or under, just straight back to me and my 'line of sight'.....My thumb base knuckle comes in contact with the corner of my mouth and continues on sliding along my cheek....then my middle finger comes trailing till it contact the corner of my mouth, and it too continues pulling the corner of my mouth rearward till my thumb base knuckle slides behind my jaw under my ear....and the arrow is gone.

I have a 'rotational draw' also....but its all horizontal, and from the front with my bow held up in position, there is very little movement for game to spot and allows for ONE fluid uninterrupted motion to anchor and execution.

My thumb and pinky are tucked inside toward the palm of my hand, but there is no tension what so ever on them....they are just relaxed.

I know I shoot fast, but I am 'on target' before I even draw so there's no need for me to stop, pause, or hold unless the game dictates.

Being that the arrow doesn't leave till my thumb base knuckle slides behind my jaw assures that I always obtain back tension and proper alignment. And, this alignment occurs no matter the position or cant the shot requires. This insures that my draw length is always the same. The old saying that 'canting the bow shortens your draw length' does not apply to those that are properly aligned. (This is demonstrated in 'The Bowhuneters of Trad Gang' DVD)

I think that's pretty detailed....but if not, ask away.

[Trumpkin the Dwarf]

Thanks Terry, that makes a lot more sense.
More stuff to think about during the long Montana winters.