Fine points of finger placement and hook split vs. 3 under

[xtrema312]

I am looking for some input on my finger hook onto my string shooting 3 under and how it relates to shooting split.  I was going to post on some other items related to my shot shooting 3 under, but found much of it now appears to be related to my hook so I will concentrate on this item first.  

I have been working on shooting 3 under and have yet to work out the bugs of my hook on the string and my shooting accuracy.  Getting my arm and had consistently relaxed and getting the same release has been an at times problematic.  Also my accuracy is just not what I had when I shot split even though I think I get advantages shooting 3 under like what feels like a better alignment, better anchor and easier to tune arrows.

I was recently reading the post “Fingers trashed shooting split”.  Here is a like to that thread.

 http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=007141

I used to have a problem with a heavy callous on the bottom of my index finger.  I have not totally ruled out switching back to split so I found this thread interesting. Particularly the link southpawshooter posted as follows:

Hooking by Coach Kisik Lee

I started playing with this and found it to feel way different than what I had done when I shot split with a tab and deep hook, but a little more like what I did years ago shooting with a stiff glove.  Then I decided to apply it to shooting 3 under, and wow did I see some noticeable changes.  Not only accuracy, but also a quieter bow once I got the ring finger with less pressure and hook. Up to now, I had been shooting more of a three finger deep hook.

So want I am working on now it trying to fine tune, and I want some input from 3 under shooters or shooting experts and trainers here to see what you think as to how the info by Coach Kisik applies to three under or how you suggest fingers be placed shooting 3 under.

At first, I thought maybe the finger tips pointed up on index and middle finger was just to keep the index finger off the arrow and eliminate the pinch.  As I have played around the last two days I am starting to think the turned up tips idea is really just as much if not more for hand alignment and applies to both split and 3 under.  Thoughts on this?

Next item is finger pressure percentages.  It seems harder to get down to 10% on the ring finger shooting 3 under.  Do you think the listed percentages for split apply to 3 under and if not what difference do you see?  More on the index finger because it is the one under the arrow?

Finger placement on the string is the last main item I am thinking about.  Shooting split you get both fingers with the same distance from hand to string so I can see the need to move out on the index finger because it is shorter than the middle finger.  However, shooting 3 under, the string is farther from the hand as you go from index to middle finger.  I wonder if it is really best to hook to the joint on both fingers shooting 3 under.   Do you think the placement is the same for middle and index finger when shooting 3 under?  I know this is one of those things I probably just work out for myself, but the comment in the chapter about injury to the index finger when shooting with the string in the joint got my attention so I thought it was worth some input on index finger placement if for nothing more than that issue.

[moebow]

xtrema,

I am a fan of the "Lee" recommendation for a string hook -- that's what I show in the "release tips" video although I'm showing split there.

If you think about it, most 3 under shooters have a little higher nocking point on the string than split shooters; so when you move the index finger to under the arrow, that finger moves down AND closes the "gap" that existed during split shooting.

So, your fingers' position on the string will be essentially in the same place.  The hook should be the same, finger pressures the same, the release the same, string angles the same, etc.

This is the reason I frequently suggest that split vs. 3 under positioning is an accommodation for aiming and really should not change your release effectiveness.  Many SEEM to find differences (and maybe they do) but it seems to me that it is a "self fulfilling prophecy" rather than an actual change in release.

I shoot both ways (prefer split) and can feel no change in release.

Arne

[McDave]

Just as another way of looking at things, I just returned from a class with Rick Welch.  Rick shoots 3 under, and I happened to ask him how much pressure he puts on each string finger.  He gave me a blank look.  So I asked him, do you think you put less pressure on any finger, or about equal pressure on all your fingers?  He said, "about equal, I guess."  But it was clearly not something he felt was at all significant in learning to shoot the bow.  When he says, "about equal," I think he means he just lets his fingers react to the force of the string, without trying to favor one finger over another, because at full draw, his middle finger is further back than his other two.  He also taps his fingers against his chest before he puts them on the string so his three fingertips will all be in line.

Not everyone shoots better with Rick's unorthodox methods of shooting the bow.  However, after four years of fighting it, I'll have to admit that I do.

[xtrema312]

Thanks for the input.  After a couple more days I still see some nice results.  Mostly due I believe to getting the hand and arm even more relaxed than before so I don’t have as much tendency to increase finger pull as I get deep in the draw cycle particularly with my ring finger.

McDave,

I watched a couple of Rick's DVD's a couple years ago.  I was shooting a tab that didn't work well for trying to do the even finger thing.  I am back shooting a glove most of the time right now and can do it much better.  I have played with it just a bit recently and found you for sure get out farter on the middle finger pad.  I am curious where the string sets the way Rick teaches it.  I have tried out on the tips more and not sure I like that.  Just off the joint and against the base of the meaty back side of the pad of index and ring with the middle hitting more in the pad is not bad.

[McDave]

Rick holds the string on the middle of the pads of his fingertips.  However, he is very strong and evidently doesn't have any problems relaxing his hand when he holds the string that way.  I find that I need to hold the string more in the first finger joint to keep my hand consistently relaxed.  I'm sure he noticed that I was holding the string that way, and didn't try to correct me on that, although he certainly wasn't shy about correcting a lot of other things he felt I needed to change.  So my feeling is that Rick would recommend that you hold the string as far out on your fingertips as you can and still maintain a relaxed hand and forearm.

[SAVIOUR68]

Extrema sounds as if you have tried several different positions and I think you can answer your on questions because you know what works the best for yourself. I was once a proponent of shooting off the fingertip pads [3U] and felt that it was very effective but I just never felt solid shooting this way, now a days I love the deep hook and actually hook in the pad between my first and second joint and this is the most solid hold I have seen to date. There has been no accuracy lose but a accuracy gain. It just feels stronger and more stabile to me and CONFIDENCE is the main driver to ones personal accuracy. Good luck.