Draw length? slump

[Bow Bum]

I'll start by mentioning I shoot right handed.

I was wondering what an acceptable change in draw length would be from shot to shot? Obviously NONE is ideal... I checked a total of 4 "draws" tonight and had my wife mark the arrow at the front of the riser. The 4 marks were between 29 and 29.25" She also claimed that I would over draw, then settle in. The first time about and inch, the rest were minimal. This seems about typical as I've made the same observations while shooting.

I shot video of myself last night, and did not come up with any bad stuff. Good follow through, pulling inline with the arrow, draw hand seems relaxed, and flops onto my draw shoulder at the shot. Draw elbow comes back, then arcs circular down to the left. Bow jumps slightly down and left at the shot etc...

I do have a bad cold, and wonder if there is a lack of "muscle" or concentration going on.

I HATE in-season slumps...

I might be able e-mail the videos, but I don't have a vimeo account or such.

Best regards,

Brian

[moebow]

Brian,

IF you can get good bone on bone alignment, your draw will essentially never change.  Your bones line up to a certain length and the bones don't change length.

If your draw length IS changing, then I suspect that your technique is more muscle than bone alignment and fatigue will cause this to happen.

Also, drawing past your references then sinking back forward to them places a lot of strain on your muscles and will produce inconsistencies like you are encountering.

Obviously we are usually not at the top of our game with a cold or illness so don't be too hard on yourself.  Frankly, for a hunter or casual shooter, I wouldn't be very concerned with just a quarter inch of variation (or frankly a half inch).  Now if you are shooting 70 or 90 meters on a target range -- that would be an entirely different thing.

Kick that cold then try again.

Arne

[Bow Bum]

Thanks Arne,

Could you describe bone on bone contact? I do try for this, and one problem I have is keeping my bow shoulder up somewhat at draw and not sunk down into its socket. If I'm not careful, I raise it up some, and tend to collapse a touch while releasing and shoot high. At least that's what I think is happening.

B

[moebow]

This may not be everyone's cup of tea, but here is a description I just did for a PM.  See if this gives you an idea about Bone alignment.  Also, you can see some of what I talk about on the "rubber band" video I did on You Tube, TheMoebow1.

"Try this. Stand up and set your feet about shoulder width apart and then close your eyes. Now mentally explore your legs and how they are working. Is your upper body weight supported on muscle or bone? What are your muscles in your legs doing? Just holding the leg bones in alignment -- right? This is bone on bone alignment.

Now let's take this to an archery shot. Here is a description of bone on bone. Starting at your bow wrist, your bow arm is straight (upper and lower arm), the arm is set directly into the bow side scapula. From there, your two scapula are connected to each other by the collar bones. Finally, your string side arm is in a strong triangular position at full draw. This is a LOT more bones than the leg example but the idea is the same.

Draw a mental line from the bow wrist up the bow arm and across both shoulders. This should be essentially a straight line AND will cross the arrow line NOT parallel it. If you can learn this; when you draw and get to anchor, you will feel the bones take up a significant amount of the weight of the bow. It will (does) feel almost like the let off on a compound bow.

This gives us the opportunity to truly relax muscles and execute a good consistent shot. This too takes work ( what doesn't) and one really BIG reason coaches want archers to LEARN on a light bow. Once this is learned, moving up in bow weight is MUCH easier. You may even be able to shoot, with control, a heavier bow than you ever imagined -- if you want to.

I show a lot of this alignment and how to get it in the "rubber band" video I did."


Arne

[McDave]

Following on what Arne says, when you achieve bone on bone alignment, there should be a noticeable easing of the effort it takes to hold the bow at full draw, so it's worth experimenting around to find it.  Of course, for us literalists, it's not really "bone on bone" alignment, just like few people actually panic when they have "target panic," but those are the names we are stuck with and so we learn to use them.

[Bow Bum]

Thanks for the explanations. I blelieve I'm getting close to bone on bone, or maybe a better description is bone to bone alignment? When I shoot well, I do feel relatively relaxed at full draw, I don't have much of a rush to shoot, or have to concentrate much if I need to hold draw a second or two before I shoot.

Some of the issue I think is the grip of my bow. I do mess with it alot, and never can get a real comfy grip on it. Its and old 60" K-hunter, which I draw to 29.25" and feels like it stacks bad an inch or 2 before full draw.

Either way, I feel like I can get better bone on bone alignment with my wheel bow because I can sort of set my wrist into my fore arm and push inline with my arm instead of having to stabilize my wrist with muscle due to the straight/low grip that it has.

I hope to get out and shoot/hunt tomorow. Doc said I had bronchitis...Boooooo   :rolleyes:  

Regards,

B

[McDave]

I wouldn't be surprised if a 60" Kodiak would stack at 29.25".  I have several of them, and they draw well to my 28" draw length, but I wouldn't guarantee them much beyond that.

They do seem to have a very nice grip, though. It seems similar to me to the standard grip on a Bob Lee recurve, which I also like a lot.  The usual recommendation, which works well for me with this bow, is to locate the grip so the force of the draw is against the part of the hand between the base of the thumb and the lifeline of your hand.  This results in the knuckles of the hand angling away from the grip at about a 45 degree angle.  I hold the bow mainly with my index finger and my thumb, with the other fingers lightly resting on the handle.

[Bow Bum]

Mc Dave,

What you describe is also my best grip on my K-hunter. I do grip the bow a little tighter though. I've had to do this with both kinds of bows, or I subconciously "grab" the bow at the shot causing all kinds of trouble. If I have a somewhat tight grip, then I'm not prone to grab the bow, and can shoot more consistent.

I'm gonna try and check the draw weight at 29.5" today and see what I've really been trying to pull.

[JJ Hernan]

I grip my bow with only the 3 fingers.  The ring and little fingers are curled on the side of the handle.

[damascusdave]

I also shoot a number of my bows with that three fingers grip...I find it works best with a leather grip wrap...I have other bows that work far better with a full grip...my feeling is that people who claim that grip shape is critical simply lack creativity...one way that I evaluate my draw length consistency is by shooting Technohunt which gives you a velocity for every shot...I am working with a bow right now that is 5 pounds heavier than I have shot before...with a good clean active release with good back tension and follow through velocity is bang on 160 fps...as I tire and do not pull through the shot velocity drops to as low as 150 fps...just one more way to assess draw length in a simulated hunting situation

DDave