Thoughts on Short Draw Lengths?

[KenH]

Modern archers seem to have inbuilt prejudices against short draw lengths and short draw length bows for some reason.  

Why?  The Robin Hood myth?  Echoes of Anglo-Saxon superiority complex? Too many bad movies?  

What advantages does a long draw offer that a short draw does not, given two bows of comparable power at the short and long draw distances?  

Why NOT use a short length, heavy draw weight, short draw bow, especially for hunting?  A 36" or 40" bow drawing 55# or 60# at 20"  or 22", shooting under 30 yards, would seem to offer all the power needed to kill anything in North America.  So why do people lug a 60" or 68" bow into thick brush?  

Short but powerful bows work well, and were effective at hunting distances for a thousand years or more.  Drawing to your bow armpit or left chest or other short point is no different than drawing to your chin or ear or back of your head, IMHO.

Two historic examples:  
The Modoc and other peoples of the Pacific Northwest hunted with bows from 32" to 48" that drew 50# plus, with draws from 20" to 26".  These "paddle bows" (named because they look sorta like a kayak paddle) were either flat or with recurved tips. Perfect for hunting in thick brush country or blinds.

The Scythians, some of the finest horse-archers of all history, used powerful (100# plus) short- draw highly recurved bows drawn to the bow-hand shoulder joint or chest. Draws like that are faster, and at least as accurate as longer chin or ear draws, not to mention easier to do on horseback. Archeological evidence indicates that they seldom drew over 26", and often only about 24".

Your thoughts???

[moebow]

As in  all things "archery," it DEPENDS on the use or application.  You can shoot like "Ishi", Attilla the Hun, a Samuri, a middle ages Welsh military archer, etc. etc.

HOW do YOU want to play the game?

IF, though, you are generally using a style that most use here, then your draw length will be YOUR draw length.  DL depends on your physical makeup, and is not very accommodating to arbitrary decisions to change it.  Can you change it?  Absolutely, but you're just making the shot a little more challenging.

It's sort of like having size 9 feet but deciding that if some "pro" ball player wears size 13 that you will be a better ball player if you too wear size 13.

In the GENERAL category of "Western Archery" styles, your draw length is your draw length.  It can be changed but good results are going to be more challenging.

Arne

[NBK]

I've watched Youtube vids of Ryan Gil and his shooting of primitive bows using a shorter draw as you described.  Here's a link
 

This style obviously works well for him and he pulls heavier bows to compensate for the shorter power-stroke.

Otherwise I pretty much agree with Arne.

[Traxx]

OH BOY!!!!
Do i have a ton of thoughts concerning this subject.I have given this subject a lot of thought,through the years and devoted some time to research of it.I could write a ton on the subject,but dont have the time right now.Untill then,ill leave you with a thought....
Use the style and weapon,in the manner that they were intended for,and you will quickly see the reasoning behind why it was preferred.Use a weapon,in the style other than it was developed for and you will further see why.

[halfseminole]

Because arrow velocity is influenced by draw length, with a longer draw making for a faster arrow  remember that shorter draws back then are partially a result of the fact that they were all shorter generally, bu the other issue with it is that you're actually giving up efficiency by drawing short.  Yes, it's a faster draw, but a slower arrow overall.

Personally, I'll keep my horse bows and 36"+ draw.  Works well for me, and drawing shorter often hurts.

[Traxx]

remember that shorter draws back then are partially a result of the fact that they were all shorter generally,

While that may be true for some nations,it was not true for all.This would not be a very good analogy for many plains nations people,who were often in the 6ft range and used a 22 to 26" draw style,with a predominate bow style,that most deem an inferior design,to take very large animals.If a persons only qualification to a good bow is FPS then yes,but what if that efficient bow was one that limited the ability to get the shot off?A more efficient arrow that cant be placed when and where needed,in near any situations,isnt very efficient,in my mind,especially,if your life depended on that shot.I also feel by experience and  those of many others,that the amount of energy needed to efficiently take most game,has been highly exaggerated in recent times.

[Traxx]

remember that shorter draws back then are partially a result of the fact that they were all shorter generally,

While that may be true for some nations,it was not true for all.This would not be a very good analogy for many plains nations people,who were often in the 6ft range and used a 22 to 26" draw style,with a predominate bow style,that most deem an inferior design,to take very large animals.If a persons only qualification to a good bow is FPS then yes,but what if that efficient bow was one that limited the ability to get the shot off?A more efficient arrow that cant be placed when and where needed,in near any situations,isnt very efficient,in my mind,especially,if your life depended on that shot.I also feel by experience and  those of many others,that the amount of energy needed to efficiently take most game,has been highly exaggerated in recent times.

[halfseminole]

This is quoted from benbow in my Penobscot woolgathering thread, re draw lengths and arrow velocity.

   

MoeM hit it on that one. The longer the draw length, the more energy stored at a given draw weight.

the power stroke of the bow is the draw length minus the brace height, so at a brace height of 7" a 25" draw gives you 18" of power stroke, and a 34" draw gives you 27" of power stroke.

So I draw 25" ... a 40# @ 25" bow might shoot a 500 grain arrow at 140fps or so.

You draw 34", so a 40# @34" bow might shoot that same 500 grain arrow at 180fps.

you would be storing roughly 50% more energy which is released into accelerating the arrow.
 

[KenH]

"the power stroke of the bow is the draw length minus the brace height, so at a brace height of 7" a 25" draw gives you 18" of power stroke, and a 34" draw gives you 27" of power stroke."

Yes, but a 36" or 40" paddle bow might only have a 3" brace height, not the modern tall brace.  You might still have a powerstroke in the 20" range.

Sheer power is not, IMHO, the sole criteria of an "efficient" bow (or other weapon for that matter.

I also agree with Traxx that amount of energy needed to take game is exaggerated these days.  Probably in direct relation to the reduction in tracking ability/desire on the part of the shooter.

[halfseminole]

All mathematic calculations aside, I shoot long draw bows because I have an arm span of 7' 4" and short draws actually hurt me.  I have a tendency to overdraw most bows hunting for a comfortable spot, so I'm making the transition to all horse/horn bows.

[Traxx]

Modern archers seem to have inbuilt prejudices against short draw lengths and short draw length bows for some reason.

In the earlier years,any form of archery,used by Native archers,was looked upon as Primitive and inferior,by the invading population.That is to say,unless they were riddled with the "Primitive" arrows.LOL
This attitude is evident in many past written documents,as well as modern documents,where the main criteria for an efficient bow,was solely based on Data from a chrono,with parameters set to what the testers notion of what proper arrow weight and draw length should be.This is slowly changing as people are experimenting with other forms of archery and realizing,the merits of archery forms,other than the "Norm".I believe the Norm was established based on an age old connection to the enlglish form of archery,that has been modified to fit the more modern bowhunter and their needs in hunting game,but still adhering   somewhat to the old english and Civilized methods.These methods do have superiority and merits for the style shooting they were originally designed for,like open range battle and long range target archery.

[Traxx]

Why NOT use a short length, heavy draw weight, short draw bow, especially for hunting? A 36" or 40" bow drawing 55# or 60# at 20" or 22", shooting under 30 yards, would seem to offer all the power needed to kill anything in North America. So why do people lug a 60" or 68" bow into thick brush?

I believe,that for the most part,it goes back to the shooting style.These longer bows are more user friendly to longer draw lengths and the styles of release used in this style.String pinch and stacking are attributed to shorter bows using the accepted method and a longer bow is more forgiving at the shot using the method and bow style.This accepted style can and have been effective in hunting situations and will continue to be,but with some limitations.I believe the shorter styles,were developed to accommodate those limitations and while they may have given up some raw power to their longer counterparts,they eliminated those limitations and created more shot opportunities to the archer that relied on it to make a living.

[KenH]

There is NO fixed part of the body that defines "draw length".  If you choose to draw to your ear - that's your ear draw length.  But no one or nothing is forcing you to draw there.  If you can draw to your ear, you can stop at your chin and use that as a draw length.  Or the corner of your mouth.  There is no law that says "drawing to X is the only recognized draw length.  

Whatever point you train yourself to draw to becomes as instinctive as any other point.  You can re-train with minimum effort if you choose.