What in ones form?

[atatarpm]

As I read around I see that for the most part everyone  is shooting far lesser arrow spine then I for any given bow weight.  I am currently  at a 175 spine for both bows you see in my sig.  with lesser weight bows that I have in the 50's I am shooting 300's. I posted here because I believe it has to be a form issue. And both bows bullet whole at less the 6 feet from paper.

[McDave]

Where do you get 175 spine shafts?  I was recently looking for shafts for a friend who shoots heavy bows like you do, and the stiffest I could find was 300.  What weight tips do you shoot?  

Maybe unrelated to your issue, but I was getting some squirrelly results from VAP's, which are very narrow diameter, and got better results when I built out the side plate about 1/8" to put the VAP's in about the same line as other arrows I shoot.  Shooting a less centershot bow allows you to shoot a weaker shaft.

There have been some recent posts in PowWow about people getting false weak readings from too stiff shafts that rebound off the side plate.  Don't know if this could be an issue for you or not.

Maybe Arne can come up with more specific form suggestions, but as far as tuning is concerned, the only thing I know is that your form needs to be consistent enough to get consistent results before you can rely on the results you get from either bare shaft or paper tuning.

[atatarpm]

McDave  Arrow Dynamics Hammer Head HeavyWeight and Alaska Bow hunting's 175 Both are Rated 175 but I find the AD's to about 190 on my spine tester

[moebow]

Both bows you list are pretty high performance bows and of pretty high weight.  Anything I shoot anymore at that weight (seldom) is from a Hill style bow and using wood arrows, so I can't help much with the spine question.  I will say, when using the old wood spine standard, .300 is about an 87# spine and .175 is about a 148# spine.

YES! I know that carbons are spined under a different standard but I contend that comparing them to the old standard (FOR TRAD ARCHERY) is a pretty good indicator of how they will or won't work.

The other post on the Pow Wow that McDave mentioned was a shooter's discovery that he thought he had good arrow flight with very stiff spine only to discover that weaker spined arrows were better.

Sure center cut, or not, arrow length, point weight ALL figure into matching a bow and arrow but my experience is that many times too stiff an arrow can give a "false" indication.  Generally I find that IF a bow is in the 50-60# range that a .500 (52#) or .400 (65#)will put a shooter into the correct (optimal) spine range for most reasonable draw lengths and point weights.

Form and execution CAN play games with this, but without seeing the shot execution it is nearly impossible to suggest whether that is a cause.  AND a person's spine requirement is not set in stone.  As you improve as a shooter (or "un-improve" though the development of bad habits) you spine requirements will change.  But most likely NOT from a .400 to a .300; the change is just not that large.

McDave, I do believe that .175 spine shafts are available from Alaska Bowhunter's Supply, they have carbon shafts called the Sitka, Grizzly, etc.

Bottom line is that IF you are happy with the performance of your set up, use it!  But you may also surprise yourself by experimenting with other options.

Arne

[atatarpm]

Moebow THANK YOU for the information. The thread you are referring to is "Perfectly Stiff" between what you said and Daniel said I believe I can see through the problem now.   I set up a 30 inch 300 with 300 grains up front and it flew as well as the 175 spine arrow. 250's 340's 330's and 400's did not work well at all.  Both arrows bullet whole 3.5 feet from paper And both arrows fly to the target at the point where I am looking. And both bear shaft equally well. I find the situation puzzling to say the least. Thank you again Ric

[atatarpm]

Moebow meant also to tell you that you are correct with the wood carbon weights be cause I have to add 16lbs to mo wood arrows over the bows weight for the spine. Thank you again Ric