Giving instruction to young archers...how do you approach it.

[dnurk]

Good morning Tradgang.

Looking for some wisdom from the group on giving instruction to a young archer.   My son is 9 years old and has been shooting bows for about a year and a half.  When we first started shooting he had a cheapo little recurve I bought at Gander Mountain.  I gave him the basics on how to be safe, get the arrow nock on the string, and let him have at it.  Really no instruction what so ever.   It was all about having fun, hitting the deer target, balloons, milk jugs, etc.  

This spring he's shooting a Black Rhino longbow and I've been giving him a bit more instruction.  Trying to improve his bow hand grip, explaining about back tension, working on a cleaner release....but I think that the more instruction I give him the worse he's shooting.   My thought is that my "help" is putting too many thoughts in his head and he's getting overloaded.   Now keep in mind I'm still keeping it fun and encouraging as I never want shooting to be a chore or "work".

For those of you who have worked with young shooters what is your approach to instruction?  

Thanks in advance for your help/guidance.

[reddogge]

The sad fact of life is kids don't take instructions from dad too well. In their minds it comes across as criticism.

I've taught two children and 5 grandchildren to shoot along with a host of kids at our club who pay to learn to shoot. Every kid is a challenge and every kid has a different motivation. Some want to learn to shoot a bow and others were brought there because their parents wanted them to learn to shoot.

Kids have lots of competing activities these days like baseball, soccer, basketball, swimming, fishing, golf so archery must compete with those activities in their limited time. I believe it all comes down to desire and motivation. Do they want to learn to shoot better or are they happy to just play around?

I am now noticing my grandchildren are drifting away from archery and don't want to shoot anymore when they come over. This is mainly due to all the athletics they are involved in during the course of a year, puberty, girls and boys, etc. I look at it as I planted the seed and maybe it will grow when they become adults.

With your boy, maybe put some judos on his arrows and go out and spend the day stump shooting. Or try some bowfishing or shooting bull frogs. Or take him to a 3-D shoot. You need to try to increase HIS desire to shoot well, not your desire for him to shoot well.

[Cyclic-Rivers]

At this stage, keep it fun. Try teaching him without grilling him on Form.  That kind of stuff can come naturally.  Take him stump shooting and shooting at fun targets like balloons floating around the yard.

You may not want to hear it but, he may listen to your friends better.  Take him out with a few guys. If he idolizes one of them, he will hang onto every word.

When I was a ski/snowboard instructor, I would accomplish more with kids in an hour than parents could in a whole season with their kids.  Once the kids feel like their parents are getting frustrated and are just constantly telling them what to do, they build a  wall and stop listening or try to do well and get frustrated themselves because they cannot do well.  Its a mental thing and having people who can try a new angle and a  new way of teaching is often the ticket.

But at 9 years old, I presume he is not hunting.  The main thing for him is to have fun.  They will be able to overcome bad habits far faster than an adult.  If he is not hitting the target, he will lose interest more quickly.

Also , allow him to shoot from wherever he wants.  Try to encourage super close shots. Pretend you are frog hunting and shoot at mushrooms and stuff.  Join in with him at taking the close shots. Its fun watching mushrooms break apart with a big judo or rubber blunt.

Be careful on the close shots that you pick targets that are not so hard, that the arrow bounces back.

You may be surprised that eventually he will develop pretty good form on his own.  It's not to say suggestions shouldn't come once in a while from you.  Give him some basics but do not constantly drill them in his head.

Most of all enjoy your time with your son, I hear they grow up fast.  The more enjoyable you can make this for him, the longer you will be able to share archery together.

Also put a big emphasis on making sure his arrows are properly tuned for his bow. better flight will make for better shooting.

To give you an idea where an eight year old is at, my nephew Oliver and I celebrated hitting the target with every arrow. It was a big accomplishment and we made it a positive thing instead of worrying about hitting the bullseye.

Far from Perfect but he walked away proud and excited rather than frustrated and burnt out.

dont expect anything from him other than safety.

 

[Cyclic-Rivers]

I think the term I am looking for is:

KISS MIF

Keep it simple, make it fun.

I wont tell you what the second S stands for but it is usually a term I call myself. Ok it stands for stupid      :p

[Killdeer]

I was a college-educated know-it-all paid riding instructor, and could not teach my little brother squat. Family dynamics. And he had a more natural leg on a horse than I could ever manage, dammit.    

My suggestion is to just have fun, and if he sets a goal for himself, like hunting, he might be motivated to ask your advice. The input about including him in outings with your friends was a great one! If he sees you also asking for input on form, it would be a good example for him as well. Stumping and three-D season is upon us, so it should be a summer full of fun and building good memories.

Killdeer  

[AZ_Longbow]

my dad made me a bow out of an old bamboo deep sea fishing rod when I was 6. he gave me some aluminum arrows. He taught me safety and that was the last ridged rule set he gave me on archery. We shot at animal crackers, tin cans on strings. grasshoppers and wasps. I found my own style of shooting. he gave me a few sugjestions on anchor points. and drawing. and that was it. over time he would improve my gear, I went to an old green and white fiberglass bear bow. then an old grizly. but shooting was always about the arrow going where I wanted. He shot his way and I would watch and learn from that. Once I was older I took it on myself to learn more form and release skills. so I have been teaching my kids the same way. its always a game. and they shoot how they want. as they succeed more and more they hone there way of shooting a bow.

[Curtis Haden]

I started out trying to teach my boy how to shoot. Figured out really quick I was going to:

A) Fail -or-
B) Make him hate it.

Now we just shoot together. We have fun. He's got time to learn, I don't have time to waste.

I know that doesn't help, but there it is.

[moebow]

I agree with all that's been said. Remember DAD, who also has to tell him to take out the trash, clean his room, etc. -- could be seen as more of the same. I'd add that with kids receiving instruction, whoever is teaching them, "TAKE WHAT YOU CAN GET."  By that I mean, that a suggestion/correction may or may not be understood or applied by the student.  DO NOT STRESS over it, move on.

With ANY student too, any change will most likely reduce their accuracy for a while, so there is another place where that student MAY reject the advice.  TAKE WHAT YOU CAN GET AND MOVE ON.

One change at a time, don't try to do too much or too many things.  If the change doesn't "take" then try something else.

For example, work with a good bow hand for a while.  If the student gets it, fine, if not, after a few sessions, change to the string hook or drawing elbow position or stance -- something else.  But just one thing!  Over time, the shot will get built even though in the present it doesn't appear to have an effect.

IMO, back tension is kind of nebulous for a youngster, so build the "parts" that will allow it later.  One thing at a time, and take what you can get!

I'll add that I help coach a 225 member school team this year (NASP) and am one of 6 coaches for that number of kids.  What we have found is that you work on ONE thing at a time and TAKE WHAT YOU CAN GET (think I mentioned that before :>))

It needs to be fun for the kid, but keep it fun for yourself too.  Don't build up stress because you aren't seeing improvement today.

Arne

[Scott E]

Work on one thing at a time.

Instead of telling him what not to do show him what to do.

Keep things fun.

He's your son so you'll probably have a good understanding of how he processes information and responds best to instruction. Tailor your coaching style to him.

At his stage it's all about fundamentals. Stance, grip, anchor point release.

[Scott E]

I forgot to mention. Staying close and big targets

[BAK]

One thing at a time.  Don't overwhelm them.

[Mike Mecredy]

Tell him the basics, let him do his thing, he'll eventually get to the point that he'll want to hit the target.

I was the youngest of 4 kids, My dad loved fishing and he loved teaching the kids, by the time I was old enough to go, my other siblings were hum drum about it because he was always giving them pointers.  With me he just let me do my thing, and at first, I sucked, bad!  By the time I was 8 or so I could read the stream, determine what bait, and catch trout with the best of them, because he let me figure it out.

All kids like to do sometimes is get in an open area and launch arrows.  Eventually they'll want to pop balloons and so on.  They'll develop their own form and become proficient.  When adults make it no fun, they loose interest.

[McDave]

From my experience with young archers, 9 is a good age to get them started.  They can handle a 15-20# bow at that age, and are capable of understanding and carrying out instructions. If they want to.  I have 8 grandchildren, and hope that one of them will want to.  Some of them have showed promise, but have drifted off to other things.  Maybe some of them will drift back.  

When I was young, the most wonderful thing I could think of was going out fishing with some uncles who would invite me along from time to time.  Nowadays they have soccer and other organized activities most days.  My wife and I have tried to include the grandchildren in things like a weekend trips to a lake, but they already have a soccer game or something else planned for that weekend.  The kids would be happy if we came over to babysit for the weekend so they could go out and do something, but life seems too structured to just turn the grandkids over to us for the weekend.

I have one grandkid who is pretty much fed up with soccer and the other organized activities, so I am biding my time.  He might be the one who will like archery.  He is pretty good at it.  He might be the one who will finally say, "I would rather go shoot arrows with grandpa than go to some stupid soccer game," but he's not quite there yet.

[reddogge]

I mentioned taking him to a 3-D shoot. I used to take my grandchildren (not all of them at once) and my friends were always supportive. We let the kids move up to a comfortable distance and they helped look for arrows. It was always a fun day with the men even for my granddaughter.

[Roadkill]

At our 4-H program  we go over safety, we go over rules and we start new shooters at  target at 10 yards and do basic drills and concentrate on form.  Let them go and shoot a few.  Offer help, if they want it, we give it, if not they shoot a few more.  eventually they see the other s  hitting targets and accept help.  My idea of fun and theirs is not the same and we let them do the fun part.  strangely, they will seek help if the others are breaking balloons and they do not.  Young men, especially, learn from another male faster than the parent-just life.  A rubber band like the ones physical therapists use can do wonders for them to see and feel what good form feels like and getting a solid anchor. this usually takes about 6 minutes and they get the idea of where that drawing hand should be in relation to the ear and mouth. Master eye is one of the first thing we do-frustration if not done right away; and they will pick a bow that looks good rather than one they can pull and hold.  They are taught the value of groups and will call out if they think they have a great group-even not if in a bullseye.  groups are more important than bulls at this stage. We celebrate groups.
My class is about 40 minutes-then break, then we do balloons, shoot for score, shoot the flame from a candle, shoot at a plastic golf ball suspended from a string. Even those tired muscles get energized for balloons.  Vary the size of balloon to the shooters-small one for the more experienced and larger ones for newbies.  there is nothing like the smile you see when they hit their first balloon!

[hart2hart]

Roadkill x 2.
Balloons are immediate,positive reinforcement and dirt cheap.Don't have to be young to enjoy them.
Geezers enjoy them too.

[dnurk]

Good feedback all around.  Definitely working to keep it as fun as possible with him and will continue to do that.

Thanks guys.

[tecum-tha]

I just start a traditional archery for kids program here at our archery club, but only use the club facilities. All 11 bows I bought myself. The key is: He needs to express by himself that he wants to shoot. If this is positive, then:
Good bow with matching arrows.
Fitting armguard and glove/tab.
Suitable quiver. Never carry his bow and arrows for him. Men always carry their own weapon.
Start out at 5 yards. Use a 6" paper plate with a 1" black dot in the center and a 4" dia circle as target. Put 3 targets on target. Deer kill high, turkey kill high and rabbit kill low.
He gets 6 arrows. 1 arrow at target, if within 4" circle, then shoot next target. If out of 4" circle, then shoot another one. Move on to next target whatever the result is of the second arrow.
Goal is, to shoot 5 passes with 80%+ in 4" circle.
So, he is allowed to use 3 second arrows. If this is done, he can move 1 yard back. Same thing
Show him how proper form looks like, but don't correct him during a 5 passes set.
Try to shoot with him doing the same.
Goal of this exercise is, to establish a database in his brain which allows him to " already have done that shot" and then it can be reproduced. Move back to 12 yards yard per yard and in between there are always mixed seasons. Same goal, but switch distance each shot within the previous trained range. After 10 yards, it is good enough to hit the 6" paper plate.
If he is proficient at 12 yards, then he is allowed to go to 3D shoots with you.
During the training, do little side bets to get his competitive side ( ice cream etc.)
I currently train the 2 time IBO cub champion and the TAS cub world champion 2016.