advice requested. creeping while aiming. Video enclosed

[skookuminak]

Hi All, I've been shooting recurves and longbows regularly since my earliest memories, so well over 30 years, and always thought I was a pretty decent shot. Over the past 2 years, however, I've been trying to develop better form and have been reading much of what's been posted here and have watched most of the recommended videos. I've started videoing myself and it's been helpful to hammer out a decent shot sequence. Over the this time I've added about 2 inches to my draw length just by developing better alignment and expansion. Much thanks to all who have contributed here and elsewhere. It's been good reading!

One thing that I keep noticing lately is that I creep while aiming. I'm currently in Kotzebue, AK and am doing a lot of indoor, blind bale type shooting. If I really focus on it, sometimes I can minimize the creep but I've noticed that it's even worse when I'm out shooting at targets. Sometimes I collapse as much as a full inch, maybe more.  Last night I took a couple of videos of 4-5 shots. Some of them I'm able to maintain expansion and others, it's obvious that the arrow tip is sliding forward on the riser prior to shooting. Unfortunately, it's difficult for me to tell which shots I'm staying expanded and which shots I'm collapsing on until I review the video afterward.

I think this happens while I'm aiming and focusing on the target and it appears to be both my bow arm and my string arm that are collapsing but I'm not sure. I know that blind bale shouldn't involve aiming but I'm trying to replicate my whole shot sequence and that seems to be the part that's causing the creep.

It's also frustrating that my draw length seems to vary by a 1/2 inch or so throughout a series of shots. My anchor is consistent and solid with 2 bony points of contact,

Thank you for reading all of this. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated and feel free to give advice on any aspect of the shot. Much thanks in advance!  Paul

     
   

[moebow]

I think the first thing to look at is your bow arm.  Look at the angle between your bow arm and body at full draw.  See how far below 90 degrees it is??  You are not maintaining the "T"!!

Draw to establish that 90* angle THEN bend at the waist to maintain the "T".  I know you are shooting at a bale below your shoulder, so draw as though shooting at the horizon THEN bend to alignment with the bale.

What you are doing now is causing you to try to hold on muscle instead of bone.  Hence the creep/collapse.

Arne

[skookuminak]

Great advice! Thank Arne. Will work on that tonight.

Anything else I should work on?

[moebow]

Let's see what squaring the bow arm does first.

Arne

[skookuminak]

I'll keep working on squaring my bow arm and am paying a lot more attention to that now and will do so on upcoming hunts. Great tip!

After two nights of working on it, I posted a couple more videos. I know that it takes months to groove in new technique but I already feel like it's a little better.  I still creep a little on my release though. It's most notable on the last shot in the video from the lateral angle but I think that was a bit of a flinch.

For what it's worth, I don't think I'm overbowed. I can hold that bow at full draw for a long time if need be without shaking or exhaustion.

I keep wondering if I'm getting full expansion and good alignment but I don't feel like I can draw much further. I could try to keep my head back? Any tips greatly appreciated. Thanks again! Paul

 
 

[moebow]

Much improved Paul.  Yes, it will take some time to  get it but you are on the way.

AND!!! You have named your next poison.  You are loosing the "expansion" by laying your head over into the string.  That takes away from your body's room to expand.  Draw as you are doing but instead of laying the head over, continue to move your string hand and forearm to your STATIONARY head.  That will move your drawing arm back perpendicular to the arrow line and give better alignment at full draw and just before release.  

Draw to your head, never "go to get it."

Arne

[skookuminak]

Thank you again for the excellent advice. I've been experimenting with head position and, no matter what I do, I can't seem to get the string arm forearm perfectly in line with the arrow. I'll keep working on it.

Looking at the video filmed from above, I do wonder if I need to adjust my bow arm more to the left to bring the arrow into alignment with my sting forearm? I'm not sure this is a good approach but I'm curious what you think.

[moebow]

No, your bow arm is fine.  You need to move the string arm back perpendicular to the arrow line.  By NOT moving the head and then bringing the string arm to the head, you will get your alignment.

It's ALL in the string (drawing) arm now!!

Arne

[skookuminak]

A couple more nights of working on it and I think I'm getting closer. Still trying to find the right position for me head so that I can get to my anchor without pulling the string against my chest too much which seems to happen if I keep my head straight up. See what you think.

The other 2 realizations that I've had from these sessions:

1) My hair is thinning!

2) I think I need longer arrows. This last point is frustrating as I have one more 2 week wilderness hunt planned starting this weekend and don't have time to set up new arrows. Will have to work with what I have...

Still not there but getting better I think. Would love more feedback. Thank you again! Your help is invaluable.

 

[moebow]

Great progress and really good alignment at full draw!

Your string on the chest issue is largely due to the cant of your bow.  The lower string is turned into your chest .  Try shooting with the bow vertical and see what happens.  That should give you your clearance.

I'd be worn out for a week kneeling and getting up that much.     :D    :D    :D  

Arne

[Firstlight]

Nothing to add other than I enjoy your dedication to improving.  Watching your videos, it's nice to see the better alignment and expansion, keep it up!!

Groove it in with eyes closed once and a while, enjoy the "feel" of a good release.

[skookuminak]

Thanks again! Will check back in a week or two. This is the most fun I've had with archery in 30 years. ( except for hunting!)

[skookuminak]

I just spent a couple more weeks living out of my tent and walking around with my bow. I still have a long ways to go with my shooting but the arrows I shot went where I wanted them. These, plus my mt goat from September have filled the freezer. Thanks again for the help Arne! Will post another video when I make more progress.

 

 

[mgf]

You must be doing something right. Congrats!