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Author Topic: Honest Question and Call out to all Pyschotrigger Aficionadas  (Read 2719 times)

Offline Ray Johnson

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Re: Honest Question and Call out to all Pyschotrigger Aficionadas
« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2017, 02:41:00 PM »
I had TP for years. I tried every cure possible and all failed until I started using Joel's system. I tried the Rick Welch style for several years but I just could not hold for any amount of time and still make a good shot. I could hold using Rick Welch method but I collapsed on the shot 75% of the time. I have been using Joel's system for a while now and am shooting better than I ever have. I can hold all day long and let down at any point during the shot process. I come to anchor and pull. pull, pull until the feather touches my nose. I am usually at anchor for 4-6 seconds.
  I am concerned aboiut using this method when hunting. I have not hunted yet using this method. I ordinarily release as soon  as I'm on target when hunting. I have got to keep my thoughts on pulling until my trigger is reached. I have done very well shooting tournaments this year but drawing on  a deer is not 3D. I've been really working on this to get prepared for this upcoming season.

Offline YosemiteSam

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Re: Honest Question and Call out to all Pyschotrigger Aficionadas
« Reply #21 on: August 31, 2017, 05:00:00 PM »
I use 2 different psycho triggers depending on my bow -- selfbow vs recurve.  But it works for me better than anything else I've tried.  Anything that helps YOU hit the mark, is fine as far as I see things.  The proof is on the paper.

As for hunting vs target shooting, I can't say as far as archery hunting is concerned (still working on that).  But when looking at deer through a rifle scope, I've still gone through my mental shot checklist.  Sometimes, I've gone through it all up to the trigger press, then started over back to verifying a secure rest because it didn't feel right the first time.  I don't expect I would behave differently when using a bow.  But I'll have to let you know.

Some of the older videos that advocate between hunting methods and target methods don't line up for me.  Taking the methods of an exceptional shooter and applying them to ordinary people seems like a good idea at first.  But you have to consider that those are ALREADY exceptional shooters.  They may have done extremely well with ANY method they employed because they're already gifted athletes (survivorship bias, for the statistics nerds out there).  In other words, for exceptional shooters, the method is often secondary to their pure, raw talent.  It can't always be copied by average folks with the expectation of similar results.  Sometimes it can.  But it's not some sort of scientific law as it's made out to be.  I suspect that some of that is just good salesmanship -- "You can do this too for only $19.95!"  

I see clickers & other psycho-triggers as the average joe/jane's method to achieve good results if nothing else is working.  Some folks can wingshoot half a dozen clays out of the air with their Benelli slung backward over their shoulder using a mirror or some variation of "the force."  It's cool to watch.  But nobody would ever recommend to teach that as a method to new or average shooters.  Besides, there's no need to rush a hunting shot.  If a deer is on the move, I'm going to let it walk.  I learned that lesson many years ago.  

If you're wingshooting discs or birds, well, that's different.  Snap shoot away!  I don't know how else you're going to do that.  Marksmanship and wing shooting are fundamentally different activities.  Hunting is not target shooting but employs target shooting at a single point in time during the hunt.  But executing a precise shot is the same in both domains.  However you best achieve that is just fine.
"A good hunter...that's somebody the animals COME to."
"Every animal knows way more than you do." -- by a Koyukon hunter, as quoted by R. Nelson.

Offline YosemiteSam

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Re: Honest Question and Call out to all Pyschotrigger Aficionadas
« Reply #22 on: August 31, 2017, 05:13:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by KSdan:
As a side note: I professionally travel/teach nationally and Internationally on theology/philosophy.  I can assure you all world-views are mutually exclusive. For another conversation in another place. . .   :)  
 
I think McDave's point is just that there are many ways to do something well.  As for academic or professional credentials, the only papers that really matter here are ones with little half-inch circular holes punched in them, right?
"A good hunter...that's somebody the animals COME to."
"Every animal knows way more than you do." -- by a Koyukon hunter, as quoted by R. Nelson.

Online McDave

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Re: Honest Question and Call out to all Pyschotrigger Aficionadas
« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2017, 06:09:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by YosemiteSam:
 
Quote
Originally posted by KSdan:
As a side note: I professionally travel/teach nationally and Internationally on theology/philosophy.  I can assure you all world-views are mutually exclusive. For another conversation in another place. . .    :)    
 
I think McDave's point is just that there are many ways to do something well.  As for academic or professional credentials, the only papers that really matter here are ones with little half-inch circular holes punched in them, right? [/b]
I did let a little of my world view slip into my comments, so I consider myself fair game for KSdan's observations.  As far as I'm concerned, both my remarks and KSdan's were made in a friendly manner, in the same spirit as the religious or philosophical beliefs that are expressed in many members' tag lines.  As long as nobody tries to impose their beliefs on any other member or dwell on them to the extent that it detracts from our mission of exploring traditional archery, it's fine with me.  As far as another conversation in another place, I'm sure that's something that both KSdan and I would enjoy if the opportunity arises.
TGMM Family of the Bow

Technology....the knack of arranging the world so that we don't have to experience it.

Offline KSdan

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Re: Honest Question and Call out to all Pyschotrigger Aficionadas
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2017, 11:29:00 PM »
Perfect and great response McDave. . . absolutely would enjoy the honest/civil discussion over ones favorite beverage or a campfire.

Yosemite- Thanks for the thoughts.  Also- I get your follow-up point as to Dave's point. . .Please don't misunderstand "credentials" - as it doesn't make me omniscient. Thought I would throw a correction for reflection out there as that particular area referenced is my wheel house in vocational life. . .As stated- another place than TG.

Appreciate the civil discourse here.

Dan in KS
If we're not supposed to eat animals ... how come they're made out of meat? ~anon

Bears can attack people- although fewer people have been killed by bears than in all WWI and WWII combined.

Offline KeganM

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Re: Honest Question and Call out to all Pyschotrigger Aficionadas
« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2017, 01:57:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ray Johnson:
I am concerned about using this method when hunting. I have not hunted yet using this method. I ordinarily release as soon  as I'm on target when hunting. I have got to keep my thoughts on pulling until my trigger is reached. I have done very well shooting tournaments this year but drawing on  a deer is not 3D. I've been really working on this to get prepared for this upcoming season.
I had this issue when I started using it, too. Deer fever messing with my target panic lol.

Any time I deviated though, I would miss by a mile. Just have to make a good shot and the arrow will go where it's supposed to.

Offline Jakeemt

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Re: Honest Question and Call out to all Pyschotrigger Aficionadas
« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2017, 11:05:00 PM »
OP I use back tension as my psycho trigger.  For me it’s all about control. When a a nice deer give me an opening I like to have a system I can fall back on otherwise I just fall apart. No I haven’t really talked to much to Mr Turner except he gave me detailed instructions on how to build a thumb tab (seems to be a hell of a nice guy). I started out trying to learn a more fluid style and I can snap shoot at short ranges with reasonable accuracy at arial targets and such but, that came only after I had a solid repeatable system. For me slow is smooth and smooth is fast. If you want to really see a serious snap shooter who can hit most about bing especially if it’s moving check out a guy named Jeff kavanaugh (sp?) on you tube. Hell of an archer!

Offline kenneth butler

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Re: Honest Question and Call out to all Pyschotrigger Aficionadas
« Reply #27 on: October 28, 2017, 02:44:00 PM »
An old thread well worth rereading. Joel is the man when it comes to TP. I have a mild form in that the bow wants to hang up just a fraction off the spot. I like all my feathers where they will touch my nose at the peak of back tension. Most of the time I hold per Rick Welch but if I think about it I can also trigger at the touch. I vary the two often in practice.Just my ¢ worth.>>-->Ken

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