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Author Topic: Authenticating a Fred Bear Signature  (Read 1305 times)

Offline Shane Reed

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Authenticating a Fred Bear Signature
« on: March 08, 2012, 05:20:00 PM »
have been fighting to find someone who can document the authenticity of my Fred Bear Autographs. I have called many of the authenticating companies. The sad thing is; that every person I talked to at these companies didn't even know who Fred Bear was. The companies have a data base of known signatures, and Fred's is not one of them in any case. There are a few left who knew Fred well, and could provide signed articles. I think it's time to have Fred's name, and style put in a data base before we lose the ability to forever. I have contacted the archery museum, and Joe St. Charles who could be the foremost expert on such a project to authenticate my Bow, and picture sent by Ben Lee Jr.  I am sure the market for Fred Bear autographs warrants such project. Is anyone else with me on this?  I honestly would like to preserve the past, keep forged mistakes from being circulated in the future. I know that the United States has a bigger Fred Bear Collection then what Bass Pro now holds. I can be reached Via E mail at [email protected] subject line Bear Autograph when mailing... Thank You,
Shane

Offline Migra Bill

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Re: Authenticating a Fred Bear Signature
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2012, 06:47:00 PM »
Shane - As someone who also collects Sports memorabilia, let me remind you that any "certificate of authenticity" is only as good as the company on the paper. There are over 100 companies that will "authenticate" a basball signature. Only 3 are worth while. There are MANY scam authenticating companies out there. A few years ago the FBI took down "Mr. Memorabilia." He had tons of great stuff and ran his own authenticating company. Turned out it was all a scam. Then on top of that, you cant just do a certificate that says "this bow is signed by Fred Bear" because then someone could take that certificate and sell any bow with it. You would have to capture the serial number of the bow on the cert. But.. serial numbers on bows can be changed- so the only real way to do it would be to put a serial number hologram on the cert that matches a serial number hologram that would have to be put on the bow. The companies that are legit have a website where you can go and put in the serial number of the holgram associated with the item and either an item description or a picture of the item comes up. I know its a lot of work, but its the only way to do it right. So, you have to find soneone that is an expert of Fred's sigs and then have him do the whole hologram technology thing. I would love it-but it seems like a tall order.

I would pay dearly to have the bow that I am holding in my avatar authenticated. I just have the knowledge that I bought it from a Bear Rep (Francis Dehner) who is in his seventies that used to work for Bear back in the day.

Online shick

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Re: Authenticating a Fred Bear Signature
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2012, 07:19:00 PM »
Bill, if you sold your handle to someone in the 'community', I don't believe there would be any question about it's authenticity.  Let's just take things the way they are.  I'm sure they may be some bogus signatures out there, why stir up trouble if you can't prove it.  I have a signed A mag that I got from a friend and will take his word on the background that was given to him.  The signature has different value to everyone.  You have one, I have one and that is good enough.

Shick
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Offline vintage-bears

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Re: Authenticating a Fred Bear Signature
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2012, 07:51:00 PM »
Me too...........lol
"In the wind, He's still alive"
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Offline Shane Reed

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Re: Authenticating a Fred Bear Signature
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2012, 10:36:00 PM »
Bill,
  You are 100% correct. I would want a company that did a hologram on certificate and Item. My two recent purchases made me think of this idea. My first purchase I won from that site we can't mention on here for some reason. It was $300 and nobody wanted it. So I grabbed it the last second. Now it seemed kind of wierd that the guy who owned the bow realy had no true knowledge of it accept that it "66 LH Kodiak" had been sitting at his place for years, and it was his dads who owned an archery shop in Cali. He knew his dad hunted with Fred once, but that was it. Not much proof there. If it wasn't for a fellow on another trad community site vouching for that bow, and giving me more of the story; I would have always wondered.
   I just purchased another Fred Bear signature bow I know is the real deal. It is a special bow because of the way it was made. It's a 1977 Grizzly with a Red stripe, no fascor, and wood tips rather than red. Also the bow is 70x#'s I just purchased this bow from Ben Lee Jr., and it is signed. The signature is very faint from the years. It was signed in 1979 and never shot. The signature reads " Happy Hunting" "Ben Roger Lee" "Fred Bear" 1979 I have talked with Ben Jr. who had information about Fred I wouldn't expect people to know unless they went to Fred's house. I also am waiting on some pictures from Ben Jr. which coppies have been forwarded to me. I have another post on PowWow with some pictures of these Items. Now the bow I received from Ben has a strong background as I can prove. The other bow didn't, and I know it doesn't matter to some in this world that know deep in there heart where the item came from, but it does matter in the collector world. As Shick said; everyone has a different value ona signature. The one I bought from Ben will not go anywhere, the other one has already headed out the door because it tripped someone elses trigger more than mine. For the collector who loves Bear history, I think it would be a wonderful piece of mind to know that Fred truly put his mark, and held what they are today. Let's face it; Not every Autograph has a solid story. It would be nice to prove solid those that have been in the attic, and the product of an estate sale. I think no "true" Bear signature should go un recognized. With only few remaining who knew Fred, and can vouch for certain items because of the relationship they had with Fred; Now is the time to do it before it's to late. I stand on this belief, and am trying my hardest to see it through.

Offline Wade Phillips

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Re: Authenticating a Fred Bear Signature
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2012, 11:24:00 PM »
Shane, Your intentions are admirable. As a serious collector of archery memorabilia during the past five decades, I have seen hundreds of Fred Bear signatures and owned many of dozens of items signed by Fred.

On one occasion 30 some years ago, Fred and I sat in the back of Floyd Ecclection’s camper and I had Fred sign a stack of over 40 black & white 8x10 photographs of Fred with animals and a dozen 1950s Bear Arrows. As with all signatures, there were variations in these signatures that were singed over a period of 45 minutes to an hour. I have Fred Bear signatures from the 1940s through the 1980s on arrows, bows, books, quivers, photographs, and other paper items. There are many variations in Fred’s signature over the years.

After retiring in 2001, I became a certified appraiser in the field of archery collectibles as I was in the process of writing books about collectible archery items and felt that it was wise to have official accreditation to be appraising and certifying vintage archery items.

I will only provide a written appraisal for items that I have in my possession as these items need to be closely examined and photographed. Some of the items that have been sent to me for appraisal over the years have not been authentic and the written appraisal clearly states that. I have seen many other items that I know are not authentic Fred Bear signatures, but generally never say anything unless asked, as everyone wants to think they have a special collectible and the more they paid for it, the less likely they are to accept the reality that the item is not legitimate. We collectors are a strange breed indeed. All of my written appraisals have detailed photographs of the item embedded on the written appraisal so anyone can compare the actual item to the appraisal document. In the case of a signature on a bow, the appraisal would contain detailed photographs of the signature, the serial number, unique grain in the wood, as well as other unique features, nicks, scratches, holes, separations, etc. It would be next to totally and completely impossible for anyone to replicate the item in the photographs. I charge dearly for written appraisal services because doing this correctly is time consuming, however, if an item proves to not be authentic, I do not charge for the appraisal, only the return postage.

If you hear anyone say, I had this item appraised at $500, simply ask to see the written appraisal and contact the appraiser, who if creditable, will always have his contact information on the appraisal, and will always keep detailed records of his appraisals.

If I am somewhere and a person asks what an items is worth, or if it is authentic, I will gladly provide a verbal response free of charge. A verbal statement is not the same as a written appraisal, and the two should never be confused, despite all that you may have seen of Mike and Frank on “American Pickers” on the History channel.

Like my Father frequently said about business, “Free professional advice is generally worth exactly what you paid for it.”

Actually, Fred Bear’s signature is not rare. I have long said that the only archery personality who signed more archery related items than Fred Bear was Glenn St. Charles, and that was only because Glenn was still alive for well over 20 years after Fred passed away.
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Offline jcar315

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Re: Authenticating a Fred Bear Signature
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2012, 08:22:00 AM »
Thanks Wade.
Proud Dad to two awesome Kids and a very passionate pig hunter.

Right handed but left eye dominant.

Proud to be a Native TEXAN!!!!!

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Offline Shane Reed

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Re: Authenticating a Fred Bear Signature
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2012, 01:50:00 PM »
Thank you Wade! I did send a private Msg. Your way.

Offline vintage-bears

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Re: Authenticating a Fred Bear Signature
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2012, 02:50:00 PM »
Bravo Wade!
 
That should answer ALL questions.

.........Philip
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Offline Cookus

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Re: Authenticating a Fred Bear Signature
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2012, 03:06:00 PM »
Good post Wade!
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Offline sticknstring+

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Re: Authenticating a Fred Bear Signature
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2012, 04:20:00 PM »
Great info Wade!

Shane,  congratulations on your new additions, they are some special ones for sure. Hope everything works out with the signatures. I found your posts while writing up a couple of auction listings this morning when I did a search on Super Grizzly. When I got to see a few pics of your beautiful signed Grizzly that you posted on the Pow Wow forum. I realized it is exactly like the one that I have that came to me with the Bear EXP collection from Bill Stewarts Shop.  Well.... Minus the personally autographed to Ben Lee part!   Mine had the red stripe, no Fascor, nice matching wood tips, marked a beefy 74 in the sight window and #75 on the handle.  For sure these heavy weights were a custom order but know I'm wondering who made this particular order. Fred himself maybe?? Not really a Super Grizzly,
 maybe more like a Custom Grizzly on steroids. Mine has GRO7718 for the serial #. Not as close to your GRO7762 as I would have thought. I can't post pics right now but I will have a bunch in my listing later. 
Love your Grumley too!
Hunting elk in Oregon and hunting for Bears everywhere! (Grayling Bears!)

Offline Shane Reed

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Re: Authenticating a Fred Bear Signature
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2012, 08:20:00 PM »
sticknstring+ I shot you an E mail. Thank you for your appreciation of the bows!

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