Legends of the Long Bow set not numbered

[Kingstaken]

I opened a box I had and in it was a 7 Vol set of Legends of the Long Bow I purchased.
I removed the paper protecting a couple books and read there were 1250 copies made. When I look at what # I have it is blank, yet it is signed by Glenn.
I've seen others being sold that are numbered.
Why would mine not be numbered?

[papabear08]

Ask Joe St Charles.

[Wade Phillips]

As one of the purchasers of two sets of this series, I can speak with some first hand knowledge on this subject.

The sad truth is that publisher printed far more than 1250 sets that he originally stated would be printed.

Glenn unknowing signed a box of pages (far more than 1250) for each volume and those pages were then bound as a page in each book.

After the initial sales of the 1250 numbered sets, countless volumes were unloaded and the value of the sets and individual books plummeted.

The lack of the printer's integrity is perhaps the "Legendary" lowest point in the history of printed material on the subject of archery....

Only adding new meaning to words "Legends of the Longbow".

A very unfortunate event as anyone can assign any number to any of the unnumbered copies...

I gave one set away and sold the other set for what I paid for it just to get it out of my sight.

Fortunately, I before purchasing the two sets, I already owned originals of all of the volumes.

[Kelly]

Is your seven columns set all Ye Silvan Archer?

The numbered sets had 28 or 29 volumnes,can't  remember which number is the correct total.

[Kingstaken]

Kelly yes they are the 7 volumes of Ye Silvan Archer.
I purchased this set in March of 2000 for $217 on **** from Books Revisted. The business card I just found attachéd to my receipt in Vol 1 says Jon Lee - Bookseller.
I had never removed the paper covering that protected each book keeping them in the original shipping box waiting for the right place to put them.  Times passes by quickly with kids family work you all know the drill and I finally want to display them only to find they are signed but not numbered.
Extremely disappointed to say the very least that this company sold me 7 books for $217 to find out almost 16 yrs later they are not numbered.
Obviously I put a call into them left a message with no answer as yet.

[Kingstaken]

I finally got in touch with Jon Lee from Books Revisited where I purchased by books from in 2000.
His explanation why my set was not numbered was that when the original publisher went out of business there was no way for the books to be continued to be numbered because various books stores such as his had purchased the remaining sets and that there were not more printed than the original 1250 sets.
He offered to buy back the books I purchased from him for the price I paid where I explained that's like selling my house for what I paid for it.
Anyone have any thoughts on Jon's reasoning why my set is not numbered?

[Liquid Amber]

"He offered to buy back the books I purchased from him for the price I paid where I explained that's like selling my house for what I paid for it.

Like some other collectors, I have originals of most if not all the books reprinted in this series.  There is only a very, small number of collectors about and the value of collectable archery books has declined over the years.  As a collectable, the Legends Series doesn't cut the mustard and is not worth what it originally sold for.  There is no market for them.  I actually think Jon Lee offering to return your money is a fair offer.  The Legends Series is one house that didn't appreciate.

[Larry m]

When I buy books they are to be read, not an investment!! If they appreciate in value all the better.
 
The Legend series is well worth the effort of sitting down, cracking open and spending some enjoyable time doing some research and learning about archery history.
The fact they are signed by one of the archery legends makes it all the better numbered or not.

You still have a very nice set of quality archery books!!

[Kelly]

Have the exact same set of 7 and they are not numbered. The numbered sets contained all 28/29 books.

Believe the original numbered books sold for $45/48 plus shipping iseach times 28 issues. That figures to over $1250 per set. Most sets on the resale market bring $1000-1100, nothing more.

Your set of 7 for $217 is a good deal plus I love reading all the issues of The Silvan Archer which later turned into Archery magazine.

[Kingstaken]

Larry that's great for you!!
But I purchased these books as I have may other items by doing my DD and understanding where their value.
If they were just for reading and not also an investment as I was made to believe I would not have spent over $200 for them nor do I believe most who purchased these books.

Regarding Wades comments above:
"The sad truth is that publisher printed far more than 1250 sets that he originally stated would be printed. Glenn unknowing signed a box of pages (far more than 1250) for each volume and those pages were then bound as a page in each book.
After the initial sales of the 1250 numbered sets, countless volumes were unloaded and the value of the sets and individual books plummeted.
The lack of the printer's integrity is perhaps the "Legendary" lowest point in the history of printed material on the subject of archery...."

If Wades comments are correct as it may possibly be then they would be worth less of that of a book only signed by the author..
but,,
If what Jon said to me is correct, then the lowering value of the books has been in-justly lowered by something that did not happen since only 1250 originals sets were actually printed, signed though not all numbered due to not being able to keep track of them during their sell off when the publisher went out of business.
It would be interesting to find out what is the highest numbered set out there and when originally sold and compare to when the publisher closed doors.
Remember even the ones not numbered are signed, so it would be easy to have that authenticated and dismiss fakes.

[Brock]

Is there an all inclusive list of titles contained in a FULL SET?  I bought a set but the guy thought he remembered a couple other volumes coming out later....  Mine are all (27 volumes) signed and numbered but want to find out if I have full set.  Would buy un-numbered volumes to complete the series if needed and there actually were 29 volumes released.

[Longbow1415]

Brock,
Here is a list of all the volumes sold as a complete set. When these were advertised in a Longbow magazine in the early 1990's, I was in the Middle East, and I did not want to wait to have each book sent a month at a time, so I contacted Derrydale Press, and had the complete set shipped to me. Shipping cost more than the books, by the way! My set was numbered 1209 , all are signed by Glen St Charles

1. "Archery," by Longman and
2. "A Study of Bows and Arrows," by Saxton Pope
3. "The Witchery of Archery," by Maurice Thompson
4. "Target Archery" by Robert Elmer
5. "Archery, the Technical Side," by Hickman, Nagler and Klopsteg
6. "Toxophilus," by Roger Ascham and "Archery, its Theory and Practice," by Horace Ford
7. "Turkish Archery," by Paul Klopsteg and "Modern Methods in Archery," by Reichart and Keasy
8. "Book of the Longbow," by Robert Elmer
9. "Hunting the Hard Way," by Howard Hill
10. "Wild Adventure," by Howard Hill
11. "Archery," by Robert Elmer
12. "Hunting With the Bow and Arrow," by Saxton Pope
13. " American Archery," by Robert Elmer
14. "Fred Bear's Field Notes," by Fred Bear
15. "The Archers Craft," by Adrian Hodgkin
16. "The Book of Archery," by George Hansard
17. "Sagittarius, " by Bob Swinehart
18. "The Complete Book of the Bow and Arrow," by Howard Gillelan
19. "Ishi in Two Worlds," by Kroeber
20. "A Bibliography of Archery," by Lake and Wright
21. "The Grey Goose Wing," by E.G. Heath
22. "The Adventurous Bowmen," by Saxton Pope
23. "Ye Sylvan Archer, Vol. I"
24. "Ye Sylvan Archer, Vol. II"
25. "Ye Sylvan Archer, Vol. III"
26. "Ye Sylvan Archer, Vol. IV"
27. "Ye Sylvan Archer, Vol. V"
28. "Ye Sylvan Archer, Vol. VI"
29. "Ye Sylvan Archer, Vol. VII."

[Liquid Amber]

The thing that always interested me was this.  A number of the titles, on the surface, appear to have been protected by copyright laws when this set was published.  I have doubts that permission to reprint some or all of these titles was obtained.  "Sagittarius," "Fred Bear's Field Notes" and the two Howard Hill titles come to mind.  

Curious, as always.  

[nr]

"The company went out of business in 1942. Its archives are held by Princeton University.[1] The name was reaserrected in the 1990s and the Derrydale Press is currently operated as an imprint of the Rowman & Littlefield Publishing Group of Lanham, Maryland which uses it to put out books on the outdoors as well as hunting, fishing, horse sports, hiking, and sporting art.[2]"
according to wikipedia

[Wade Phillips]

Jim -

Your 7 volume Derrydale set of reprinted "Ye Sylvan Archer" for $217 is significantly less than the value of originals of this great old archery periodical.

During the early 1980s an intensive world wide search revealed fewer than 20 completed sets of original "Ye Sylvan Archer". Many incomplete sets were in existence.

The absolutely certain, indisputable fact is that Derrydale printed far more than the purported 1250 copies of the 7 volumes you have, if not all of the books in this series. It is incomprehensible that anyone would be foolish enough to attempt to question, or to cast a shadow of doubt on this well established fact.

Larry -

Like you I buy old as well as new books to read, to enjoy and to use for reference. In the newer books I frequently make notations and corrections in red ink for my personal reference.

I don't buy any books for investment. While many old books have greatly appreciated over the years, most that I've bought that were published in the past 30 years or so, have probably depreciated in value.  

Many of the large format original books with color plates and color dust jackets are much nicer by countless orders of magnitude than their much smaller "cookie cutter" black & white Derrydale reprints without dust jackets.

Although the reprinted words may be the same as the originals, the experience of reading a truly "collectible" original first edition in nice condition, is usually much different than reading one of the reprints, e.g.,

 - Enjoying the aroma of the decades old pages
 - Feeling the texture of the cover and turning the pages
 - Viewing the color plates
 - Admiring the dust color jacket
 - Re-reading the inscription/signature of the author
 - Remembering the search to acquire the treasure
 
As a life long collector of archery memorabilia, (and previous owner of two reprinted sets) I much prefer owning and reading first edition originals.

[Larry m]

Very Well stated Wade!!

I have always been an avid user of the public library and in my mind there is nothing like the opening of an old book (the feel and the "aroma") and being swept away on a wonderful adventure and to be placed in another time!

I have many original copies of the Long Bow series and for those that I could not find I have picked up the Derrydale reprints. All very enjoyable to sit down and spend some time with.

If I remember correctly, in the past you have posted a few pics of your library along with your wonderful collection. A very pleasant location to sit down and do some research and enjoyable reading!

[Archery_Collector]

I too own a complete set and bought them during the initial release having one shipped to me every month. I have set 41. However I only have 28 issues, missing A Study of Bows and Arrows," by Saxton Pope (luckily I have a first edition). When I inquired to Derrydale about this, they said few were made and not all got one. Something about this issue got printed upside down. I told them I wanted it upside down or not but that never happened.

I had heard different rumors that more were printed.

Wade, when you state; "The absolutely certain, indisputable fact is that Derrydale printed far more than the purported 1250 copies of the 7 volumes you have, if not all of the books in this series. It is incomprehensible that anyone would be foolish enough to attempt to question, or to cast a shadow of doubt on this well established fact."

Not that I doubt you however, I would be interested to see this absolutely certain indisputable fact. Again, not that I don't believe this to be so or I'm disputing it. As an owner of the set, I just want to know.

I hope its not too incomprehensible or foolish for me to ask  

In regards to the fact that some are unnumbered and numbers could be written in. Having proof (as I do) as an original purchaser of the set would carry weight, whether that has an affect on value or not.

Investment or not, I love the set, refer to them often and they look great on my shelf.

[Wade Phillips]

Tim -

Your account is interesting about the upside down "A Study of Bows and Arrow" and the logic behind its purported rarity. Thanks so much for sharing as we all learn more of the Derrydale debacles and demise.

Regarding your inquiry concerning my statement... "The absolutely certain, indisputable fact is that Derrydale printed far more than the purported 1250 copies of the 7 volumes you have, if not all of the books in this series. It is incomprehensible that anyone would be foolish enough to attempt to question, or to cast a shadow of doubt on this well established fact."

As I stated in an earlier post, during the 1980s there were fewer than 20 original and complete sets of "Ye Sylvan Archer". At that point, I helped complete three of those less than 20 original sets. One those three sets was the St. Charles set. St. Charles let Derrydale use their complete set as the masters for the reprinting with the agreement that St. Charles would get 250 additional 7 book sets of "Ye Sylvan Archer" that were completely separate from the sets of 1250.

Anyone who was seriously active in collecting, buying or selling collectible vintage archery books and magazines in the late 1990s through the early 2000s, likely saw these sets for sale.

Probably only God knows if there were any other such "arrangements" or any other upside down "debacles".

[Wade Phillips]

Originally posted by Archery_Collector:


Investment or not, I love the set, refer to them often and they look great on my shelf.

I'm certain that you do love the set, that it serves as a great reference source and that it looks great on your shelf.

The concept of the set was ideal for the person who was interested in reading about archery in the past, but who did not have the inclination to try to find many of these books that were out of print at that time.  

My preference is the originals vs the set, for numerous reasons mentioned earlier.

Some may not be aware of how different the originals are vs the reprints. To illustrate that point, I borrowed a Derrydale reprint to use for photographs...

This is an image of the original "Sagittarius" that I purchased when they were first offered for sale in the early 1970s, it now has a slightly worn dust jacket, shown with the borrowed green cover Derrydale reprint...

     


This is an original 1926 mint condition "Adventurous Bowmen" with original mint condition dust jacket shown with the borrowed green cover Derrydale reprint...

     

[Archery_Collector]

Wade, Thanks so much for your insight and expertise, it helps all us collectors who want an understanding of this set.

I do try, and have found some of the originals or reprints of the books featured in the set but knowing I may never find them all was my motive for getting the set. As we have found out, it is disheartening what they did.  :(

Thanks for your pictures of some of the originals. I will totally agree the originals are more enjoyable to read and flip through.