Impala with an old 33# recurve?

[Prairie Drifter]

Originally posted by Rob DiStefano:
warthogs.

OK, but they aren't large. Dangerous ? Maybe. Tough? yes. However, in my experience it isn't very hard to get good penetration on them.

[Rob DiStefano]

the bottom line is, hunting most anything in africa with a 33# stickbow is just ethically nuts, sends the wrong message to newbies and it all becomes pure anti-hunting fodder for the peta-files (who DO review trad gang more often than we think).

[Rob DiStefano]

fwiw ....

a noted south african ph, dennis kamstra, who also writes for the traditional bowhunter magazine, published his following opinions, which i think are quite apropos to this thread's aim and content ...

"I would like to make a controversial comment about bow weight and arrow weight for hunting big game.  What I interpret to be "big game" is any animal over 250 pounds in live weight (because bone muscle mass is a much bigger consideration than with animals less than this weight).  I will make a bold statement that for hunting big game, a bowhunter should be using a bow over 55# of draw weight and an arrow over 600 grains total arrow weight.  Admittedly, this comment is based on my experience hunting African game, but I would throw elk, moose, bear, and big hogs in this category as well.

As long as I have put my toe into this controversial water, I may as well jump in all the way.  The above recommendations are especially true for bowhunters using traditional equipment.  I am in a unique position where I guide both compound and traditional bowhunters.  My observation is that complete pass through is common with compound shooters, but rare with traditional shooters (shooting equipment lighter than my above recommendation).  Once traditional bows get up to 65# or more, and arrow weight exceeds 750 grains, the difference in penetration levels out.  In fact, I personally know outfitters who refuse to guide traditional bowhunters because of their experience with excessive wounding of game.  I try to explain that this is a misconception, but my words have fallen on deaf ears.  I think we, as traditional bowhunters, can alter this thinking by ratcheting up arrow weight specifically.  But, in order to successfully shoot heavier arrows, we should have a corresponding increase in bow weight.  I am absolutely convinced that heavy, FOC arrows are a superior hunting weapon.  If nothing else, simply strive to use broadheads that exceed 190 grains in weight and match the rest of your equipment to that."

[Prairie Drifter]

Well then, I guess I better quit hunting Africa, big NA game and hogs then. With my short 26" draw, and shooting less than 55 lbs, I'm being unethical.

Oh, and this post was about impala and warthog, both well under 250lbs.

[Rob DiStefano]

mike, my above post was prefaced with "fwiw" (for what it's worth).  if what dennis wrote applies to anyhone, or has bearing, or makes sense, or makes nonsense, that's clearly up to each of us to decide.  but in any event, i think that a person making a living as a ph in south africa has a bit more merit and weight than i, living and hunting hogs in the usa.  perhaps you included as well ... ?  i dunno, that's up to you.    

i can no longer hold and shoot 65 or even 60 pound bows good enuf, to my standards.  52 pounds serves me well for the hogs i prefer to hunt.  would i hunt hogs with my 45 pound hill longbow?  hmmm, i dunno.  maybe sounders, but not a large sow or boar.  that's just my ethics.

would i take my 52# longbow to hunt any small/medium sized african game (impala and/or warthog).  hell no.  again, my ethics.  to each their own, it's all good one way or another.  

 

[Prairie Drifter]

Rob, I don't want to argue, but really? You wouldn't shoot a 125# animal w/ a 52# bow? An impala has thin skin and is very comparable to our pronghorns. As far as warthogs, again a big one MAY go 180-200, most around 150-160lbs, and they don't have the shoulder plates our pigs have.

I will continue to hunt large game w/ my sub 55# bows, including African and North American game. I do however "up" my performance w/ skinny strings and high FOC arrows as I have always done.

[Rob DiStefano]

mike, it's all personal.  if i'm paying to hunt africa, i'm not going with a 33# bow, nor a 52# bow.  i'll take my 45-70 and 30-06 and hunt for game commensurate to those cartridges.  i know my limits, you know yours.  it's all good, no argument from me.  

look at the larger picture concerning this thread.  add in a mix of all the people who peruse all this (remember, you don't need to be a trad gang member to read trad gang) and without them understanding or knowing their limits, they may think its just fine to hunt impala/warthog with 33# holding weight or perhaps elk with a 50# holding weight.  however, with their limited skills, therein lies both the problem and consequences we will all suffer.

fwiw, skinny strings are near meaningless for any kinda noticeable performance "boost".  1 or 2 fps means squat.  i think high or even ultra high foc is a good thing, too, along with a minimum 10gpp arrow.  

however, i also believe that those things take a big back seat to - consistently accurate shot placement at a specific near and max range, excellent arrow flight, and truly sharp c-o-c broadheads.  it may take a 45# bow to make that all happen, and then tailor the game hunted to that tackle and the bowhunter's expertise.

[Prairie Drifter]

Rob,
Have to disagree about the skinny strings. My chrono results added 12-15fps over my Dacron strings. That's the equivalent of 5-6 pounds of draw weight.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by Prairie Drifter:
Rob,
Have to disagree about the skinny strings. My chrono results added 12-15fps over my Dacron strings. That's the equivalent of 5-6 pounds of draw weight.

let me guess - yer skinny strings are hmpe.  

[Prairie Drifter]

SBD's. Rob, I just feel your depriving yourself of opportunities . My first trip to Africa I hunted w/ a handgun. Took several trophies including a top 5 East cape Kudu. Had a blast. Every trip since has been w/ a bow. Had even more fun ! YMMV.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by Prairie Drifter:
SBD's. ...

yer experiencing the difference 'tween dacron polyester and hmpe polyethylene.  the average typical speed difference 'tween 14 and 8 strands of hmpe (most any flavor) ain't much at all.  i built bowstrings for a living at one time, in the dim past.

when i was yer age, 20 years ago, there were lotsa things i wouldn't hesitate doing.  won't say anymore.    

[hybridbow hunter]

I agree with Rob. If you compare 2 perfectly made strings for a given bow, same brace height and draw length with the same arrow difference between Dacron and dynema strings will be around 4-5 fps and 16 strand vs 8 strands same dynema strings will be hardly a couple of fps if any. When you get more than that it is usually more from quality of building, non stabilized string vs completely stabilized one and difference in brace height with lower BH on the " skinny"

Regarding to bow poundage and African plains game, for a very good shot and no marginal hit 50 pounders and skinny one inch wide 2 blades are really effective. When you are marginal ( trophy fever, fast spinning upon release game, etc..) you will have no back up for breaking bone or deeply penetrate the critter or create a wide wound from a wider and/or multiblade BH and most of the time a poor outcome.
Advising extra light poundage as mentioned in topic title is just stupid.

[coaster500]

Due to health issues I was forced to shoot a 56' Thunderchild that was marked 50@28 and I only draw 27"so probably 47#s or so. Single bevel two blade  Abowyer and a 500 grain ish arrow......  I shot Impala, Warthog, Blesbok, Nayala and a Red Duiker.... Lammie from Dare to Bowhunt SA will attest to the effectiveness of my set up .....  all animals had two holes, entry and exit...

sorry for the quality of this video but it demonstrates the effectiveness of my set up. The arrows shadow can be seen in the video. It traveled about 18/19 inches and fell to the ground after a short death run... this shot was about 18 yards.....  I would not hesitate to use this set up again………..