Question about cedars...

[slayer1]

I have recently been playing around with cedar arrows. I really want to make them work, because I enjoy making them up and they are pretty cheap. The problem I was running into was that all the arrows I tried were hitting left. I was shooting them from a 58lb long bow with a draw of 28". All of the arrows were spinned 50-55's. The ones I started with were cut to about 30" with a 125 grain FP.(All flying good but hitting left) Well, last night I took a blank shaft fl etched it up tapered the shaft glued on a 125 fp and took it to the range.( I didn't cut anything off of the length) To my amazement it hit right where I was looking. The arrow is 31 3/4" from knock to tip. (Does this sound normal?) Here is the problem, I really do not want to shoot an arrow that is that long. What should I do: Go to a 45-50 spine or Cut the arrow shorter and increase the point weight. I want to keep the arrows in the 9 gpp range which means they have to weigh in the 522 grain range. If I go down in spine will I have problems keeping the weight in that range? I think today I am going to order a test kit from Three Rivers with different weight points and see where I get with the shafts I already have. Is anyone shooting close to this same set up that could give me some advice? Thanks in advance for the help!

[Whip]

I'm not an expert on this at all,, but it sure seems like those might be light.  If you're drawing the full 28" most things I've read would have you start with a heavier shaft.  Leaving the arrow long like you did actually weakened the shaft even more.  
Have you actually tried bareshaft testing with these?  I don't think just the fact that fleatched shafts hit one way or another tells you much by itself.  What kind of longbow are you using?  High performance, fast flight, etc?

[George Tsoukalas]

You can do any of the options you mentioned. Leaving the shafts longer or increasing  the point weight are all viable options as is going down in spine. Your shafts are very definitely overspined. My guess is you are not drawing 28 in when shooting. Your pose draw may be 28 in but your actual shooting draw is not likely 28. You could mark an arrow an someone watch while you shoot. Jawge

[Aaron F.]

To me using 50-55 on a 58 pound bow seems like the shaft should be weak.  On my 54 pound bows I usually use 65 or so (cut to 29 inches).  If you have a D section bow 50-55 might be normal, but usually then only cut to length, and not with 2 extra inches of arrows.

Before I'd order a test kit I'd check more basic things like fletching hitting the riser, paper, or more bareshaft tuning, to be sure that left (or stiff) is truly what you have. (Especially when the bareshafts shoot fine).  You might need a weaker shaft, but if it was me I'd need a heavier shaft.

Hope it goes well,
Aaron

[slayer1]

George thats what I was thinking too. Probably more like 27 1/2. If I go down in spine will I be able to find shafts heavy enough to get in the 9 gpp range? thanks again for the help

[varmint]

I'd go with a heavier spine.

I'd probably be shooting 60-65 out of that #58.

[SlowBowinMO]

The depth of cut on your shelf is everything.  If you are cut less than center I wouldn't be at all surprised to find you need arrows spined less than the bow weight.

Everything you've posted indicates stiff, assuming you're right handed.  Like mentioned above you may be under drawing or you have a longbow with a shallow shelf.

Have you tried a broadhead yet, or bareshafting?  That will really let you know what's going on.

[Whip]

Heavier sure does make more sense.  I pull a 57# longbow to 29", but the arrows are cut to 30.5".  And my bow likes them more in the 65-70# range.  Even if you're only drawing to 27" you are still pulling about 55#.  Other than the actual weight you are pulling draw length itself isn't what affects arrow spine as much as actual arrow length.  Leaving the arrows cut to 31 3/4" would weaken spine considerably.  Each inch over 28" should actually require a 5# increase in spine.  Take a look at the charts from Foxfire.  I've found them to be a good starting point.
 http://www.arrowsbykelly.com/Spine_Charts.html

[slayer1]

Thanks guys. My longbow is not cut to center. The bow for some reason likes weak spine arrows. It was true with carbons. I think it may have to do with the "cut to center" factor. I am going to try this plan of action: fletch up a blank shaft of the 50/55 spine, use a heavier point, say a  145 or 160, then cut the arrow based on the flight until it comes to center. I will keep you guys updated to my progress. All the advice and info from you guys has been very helpful. Thanks again.

[slayer1]

Oh one other thing. I tried a 135 magnus head, with the same result. (Arrows hitting left) in the same place as the field points. I really think it has something to do with the cut of the shelf.

[Ron LaClair]

I'd say you're arrows are too weak in spine if your bow poundage is what you say and the shafts are spined at what you said.

Take a look at this on Paul Jalons website. Paul makes my arrows and I also sell them on my web site.
 http://www.elitearrows.com/proper_arrow.html

[30coupe]

To answer one of your questions, 45-50 spine arrows will not necessarily be lighter in weight than the 50-55's. I am shooting 29" BOP 45-50 cedars from 3rivers and they weigh 540-545 grains with 125 grain heads. I have some 50-55's that only weigh 495 grains set up the same way (these were from The Footed Shaft). I didnt' specify a particular weight from either source. I don't know about 3Rivers, but I think Lamont at The Footed Shaft will match for weight, though I expect they would cost a bit more.

[donw]

if the arrows fly good, try moving your bow arm to the right when aiming...

[30coupe]

I had the shooting left trouble when I first got my Kota. It's not center shot, so I was getting good flight and good groups, but they were left. I finally learned to look down the arrow to line up on the target and the groups centered. The nice thing was, it works with every bow. Now I can switch back and forth between center shot and non-center shot bows and still hit the center of the target.

[JBiorn]

Slayer, from what I have experienced, a longbow not cut to center will generally like a spine weight of about 10# less than peak draw weight and a cut-to-center bow will be a lot more apt to digest the stiffer arrows.

[Big Dave]

If you are right handed and the arrows are flying good I would try canting the bow to the right a little more each shot until the arrow comes to center.

[Ron LaClair]

....  

[slayer1]

I'm with you Ron  

[draco]

Also,check your form,if your shoulders are not in alignment with the target you will shoot left no matter the spine.