"Exotic" Animals...

[Benny Nganabbarru]

G'day fellows, I'm interested to hear some viewpoints, and share my own (such as it is at present) on hunting "exotic" animals out of their natural habitat.

I suppose that nearly all the animals I hunt might be considered exotic to people from the USA. They include goats, camels, horses, donkeys, and pigs, amongst others. But the very reason we hunt them (other than adventure, occasional eating and occasional trophy) is that they are feral and highly destructive to the environment. We really enjoy bowhunting our ferals here in Australia. They roam wild and free, and are quite challenging, especially the donkeys, surprising though it may seem.

Now I'm getting to the bit that bothers me. I heard of a place up near Darwin (I live in Katherine, NT) that was importing and breeding impala for paying hunters to hunt. I bet they would be challenging. But, I'd rather hunt them in Africa, not in an arteficial set-up. If they were an out-of-control feral species, that'd be different, and I'd be after them. Incidentally, the place near Darwin is either very low-profile, or the idea didn't come to much, 'cause I haven't heard anything about it for awhile.

Also, sometimes when perusing the internet, I see photos of magnificent exotic sheep, by the names of Mouflon and Corsican and other such. It seems they're often hunted on ranches in your country (USA). I bet they're challenging, tasty, and look great on the wall. But, if I was to ever visit your country, I think I'd rather have a go at one of your whitetail deer. What I'm saying is I'd rather hunt a Corsican ram in Corsica, unless, of course, it was a feral species causing problems.

Anyhow, there's my ramblings. I suppose, in summary, my view is that I'd rather hunt a wild animal, feral or native (depending on the country).

Are there any differing views on exotics? Perhaps there's a point-of-fact that I've overlooked? If you do hunt exotics on a ranch set-up, could you share your views on it?

Thanks, Ben

[Zbone]

High fencing will be the demise of this great sport.

[jmar595]

Hey Ben, have u checked out.."this will make u sick on this forum"? Animals of all varieties have their places and to wipe them out would not be good for us at all. In my view the main reason to kill something would be to eat it and use as much of it as u can. If animals are being destructive that would be the other reason. But I agree with zbone and u also, hunt the animals in their own environments free of high fences and such.

[Wile E. Coyote]

Ben,
I believe that most of the people who frequent this forum tend to be of the same mind as you. Most are interested in hunting native species in their natural environment or feral "exotics" that have adapted to the wild similar to the goats, donkeys and pigs you hunt.

That being said there is another segment of the population which IMHO is unfortunately growing at an alarming rate. I'll call them Shooters. The ends is seen as the all important factor, and the means, just that, a means to an end. They are not Hunters and are looking for trophies (read as record book scoring animals ) for their wall or bragging rights. How they get them is of little concern and for most the easier the better, which means game ranches with smaller and smaller enclosures where fair chase is but a memory.

How big is the interest in this type of hunting. Well to give you an example, just last week a World Class Captive Breeding Whitetail sold for 1/2 a million US dollars! That means that the Ranch who bought that buck plans to sell his offspring, most likely to "Shooters" for a pretty penny.

Heaven help us. We all need to teach the young ones comming up that the measurement of a trophy   is in the amount of effort and skill expended by the hunter not in the inches of horn the animal carries.

[Danny Rowan]

There are lots of Exoctics in Texas. If not for hunters and their dollars the Blackbuck and Axis deer would more than likely be extinct by now. There are free ranging herds of both in Texas. And more in Texas and Florida than ever in their native land of India where they have almost been wiped out.Also the Auodad sheep and other exoctic sheep are free ranging. Just because a ranch has a high fence does not mean that it is a given that you will kill something. There is a big difference between a small 100-300 acre fenced area and 20,000 acres of fenced in area. The ranchers are protecting and managing their property, simple as that. While I agree that a lot of places are pricing out the normal person who may want to hunt there, it is free enterprise in our country. Unfortuneatly, with growing populations and deminishing land it is getting to the point where you better buy some land for hunting or plan on paying for a lease or pay big bucks to hunt on one of those trophy ranches.

"Shooters" yep there are some but true sportsmen also fuel the fire cause they can afford it, not all of us can.

Hunt for the joy, not the trophy and things would be different.

Danny

[Zbone]

Danny - How big does the fence have to be to be considered "Free Ranging"?

What a JOKE!!!

[centaurshooter]

same ole' silly argument.  the demise of this fine sport is all the dang bickering b/w trad and compound, blah blah blah.  it's so old.  exotics are wonderful to hunt.  not only do they give a great challenge, but they are just breathtaking to look at.  i would love to hunt these animals in their home range someday but to be honest, my schedule and the sports schedule of most of my kids overlaps that of whitetail season.  it is incredibly hard to get a time and a place to hunt in the normal season.  enter texas exotics, year round, reasonably affordable and just a wonderful hunt.  i just got back from bowhunters paradise with my son.  he had an exciting time taking his first wild hog, a russian boar, with trad equipment.  the exotics were insanely difficult.  stalking is flat out not an option at that ranch.  the animals are beyond wild.  no offense, but texas whitetails are by far more edgy than their midwestern and western brethren.  their smaller, faster, and much more highly pressured and are very difficult.  the whitetails there were by far the least edgy and high strung game, but all were about 100x's more difficult than any whitetail i've come across in illinois or wisconsin.  i will not apologize to anyone for trying to outsmart a blackbuck anywhere, especially there.  we hunted hard, my son was averaging less than 5 hours of sleep per day and very very tired.  (tough for a growing youngster)  between him and i we took one animal and that was his hog.  saw a bunch, and his hunting skills went up considerably.  his comment to me was that these animals were much harder than what we'd seen on public land here.  most of the deer species are able to clear the high fence and they do so regularly, it's just the ranches nearby are rifle hunted and the ranch actually has a growing population b/c of the animals that come over the fence.  most of you guys make this crazy, and stupid line in the sand about fences and exotics.  there's plenty of canned hunts and i've tagged out on mule deer on the most docile never hunted deer i've ever seen in NM and they were free ranging.  there was no sport and i'd not consider that a hunt, it was meat gathering, this excursion we were on at bowhunters paradise sure as heck was a hunt.  not to mention a great time spent with family and friends.  the biggest deal is made on this kind of stuff is done by trad nazis and that crappy attitude will be the end of bowhunting seasons.  i also love how guys hunt some little food plot of a few acres and have deer running in predictably the whole year, set a stand, sit in it and take a whitetail and are all proud, that's great but you sure don't know a dang thing about chasing exotics, fence or not.  you want a canned hunt, you can have it, you want a real hunt, you can have that to.  the fence really has nothing to do with it.

[Benny Nganabbarru]

Thanks for the various views, fellows. There were many points I hadn't heard before. One day I would like to visit the USA for a hunt. Anyway, all the very best to each of you in the coming year. I hope you enjoy many happy days afield. Cheers, Ben

[J Osborne]

Ben hunting whitetail in a non fence setting is very challenging depending on where you go in the US.  Som eplaces are over run with them, throw a rock and any direction and you will hit 4 other places they can be very hard to find and harvest, but this makes it all the more meaningful.

I understand what you mean and agree for the most part.  everytime I see this video (  http://real-hunters.com/full.swf  ) It makes me loose any respect for the idea of fenced hunts.

Im sure there may be legit places but I think this is probably more common.  Places advertise thousands of acres to claim 'fair chase' but in reality they have small lots where they can gurantee a trophy for the right price.

If your ever around TN during the fall/winter feel free to give me a shout and Ill show you my favorite hunting places.  No gurantee on a kill, but will be a good time.

[centaurshooter]

not to mention, the dollars this brings in to the economy make sure hunting is safe in texas, it's really the little eastern states where half you guys side with politicians that are wishy washy on hunting rights at best that will lose their hunting first.  you go ahead and hold your head full of pride and high zbone, you're the ultimate hunter, i'll be content to match wits with highly pressured wired animals in texas in the off season when you're wishing you could go hunting.  i'd love for you to try it sometime, you would surely change your tune.  if you want a real hunt pm me and i'll give you a couple of ranches that will provide that and more for a reasonable cost and you can go sometime in the spring when everyone else is dying for the season to come to them in the fall.

[centaurshooter]

and no, those types of fenced hunts aren't the most common in texas, at least.  the states that have an abundance of public land like michigan and most other midwestern states and most western states, i'm not fam.with eastern states' hunting, have high fenced ranches for one thing, canned trophy whitetails. in texas 98% of all land is private and posted no hunting unless otherwise specified so it's difficult to get public hunting so most land is leased and can be quite expensive.  that, along with texas' land owner rights (which i like) basically say you can shoot someone roaming your land with a hunting rifle.  it's not quite that simple but that's essentially the end result.  so in essence, you either own land, lease land, live close to one of the few public opportunities, or go to a day lease ranch.  most of these ranches in texas strive for a hunting experience although wherever the mighty dollar is involved and people want a canned hunt,they will be able to find one.  so what, i don't protest feed lots and even canned hunts are more sporting and humane than that, it's just sickening when some talk about them being real hunts and then bragging on racks.  it's quite silly and detestable, but don't lump all fenced ranches into the same pile, it's certainly not accurate.

[Danny Rowan]

Zbone, I  said free ranging. Yes there are high fence ranches and most offer great hunting, but in the Hill country there are blackbuck and Axis that are not behind high fences they go where they like. And I challenge you to go to a good place like Mark is talking about and see how hard it is. I have hunted at Jim's place two years in a row and tough I had opportunities, things did not come together, I had a huge Axis at 12 yards and he spooked before I could get a shot and he did not smell or hear me. And yes you will hunt if you want to kill anything. You had better be paying attention to the wind, your scent and noise if you expect to see anything.

Danny

[vermonster13]

To import the animals today just for hunting purposes I don't agree with. To many diseases get introduced and unneeded competition for native species. Places where they already are in place is a different story. As far as fences it all depends on the size of the enclosure and how the animals are raised and what is done for feeding purposes. There are way to many variables to make a blanket statement about a legal form of hunting. This is an issue that pits hunters against hunters when the energy would be better spent on more pressing concerns like hunter recruitment, land access, habitat improvement, etc. It is another case of us having many goals while those opposed to us only have one.

[Danny Rowan]

Well said David.

Danny

[Talondale]

Originally posted by vermonster13:
To import the animals today just for hunting purposes I don't agree with. To many diseases get introduced and unneeded competition for native species. Places where they already are in place is a different story. As far as fences it all depends on the size of the enclosure and how the animals are raised and what is done for feeding purposes. There are way to many variables to make a blanket statement about a legal form of hunting. This is an issue that pits hunters against hunters when the energy would be better spent on more pressing concerns like hunter recruitment, land access, habitat improvement, etc. It is another case of us having many goals while those opposed to us only have one.

I totally agree.  I think Australia should serve as a warning against importing non-native species.  I have a house full of Japenese Ladybugs right now that were imported about 1988 and have run rampant.  The list of out of control non-native species in America is long: nutra, carp, starlings, kudzo, russian boars, etc.  Usually they have a negative impact on native species and environs.  So as far as importing them I'm 100% against that.  I'm suprised that the Impala's were allowed into Aust.  As for feral species I think they are an interesting variety and it would be nice to have some year-round species to hunt but I won't wish feral pigs, or whatever else, on our State just so I can hunt year-round.

[Talondale]

 in texas 98% of all land is private and posted no hunting unless otherwise specified

Centaurshooter,  why is it that the Texas hunting community hasn't mobilized and demanded more public hunting areas?  A portion of our State's income from lic. sales is dedicated to procuring and maintaining public access areas to hunt.  A State as large as Texas should have lots of public land to hunt.  How many National Forests are there?

[JStark]

On Point Reyes National Seashore (and this gets to exotics and PETA), herds of free ranging fallow and axis deer have wiped out habitat for coast blacktail.  

Now granted, blacktail aren't endangered, but as more and more property in California is turned into houses, their habitat changes dramatically.  
So the National Park Service has tried to cull them (kill them), but, given that the park is in Marin County (a gorgeous place in all other respects), of course the PETA folks have been all a'tizzy about it.  They propose sterilizing them (think about that for a couple of seconds and then laugh).  However, they don't see an emaciated fawn blacktail, because the does don't go into estrus if there isn't enough food.  So the blacktail herd suffers while PETA feels good because there aren't any touchy-feely photos to make them cry.

I'm against importing exotics; you never know what the repercussions will be, and it makes it harder to follow Aldo Leupolds first law of ecology:  Keep all the pieces.

[Ray Hammond]

Talondale,
I am surprised you don't have feral pigs in VA, but rest assured, they are ON THE WAY. If you don't have them now, you will have them in less than five years, I predict.

They can really mess up some habitat, too, if you don't keep them hammered down pretty good and that is nearly impossible without firearms.

[Alex.B]

Any transplanted "exotic" animal anywhere in the world advertises the "Hunting Amusement Park" mentality.
I'd rather never hunt again in my life than killing a Mouflon in NY, or a Whitetail in Switzerland!!!!!