some thoughts on the quipment debate

[Old Ways]

I see you are joking. Guess this thread could use a joke. But, just so you know there's nothing wrong with good equipment.

Besides if you really want to do it like us or me you wouldn't throw anything away. Don't forget the 3 Rs, Reduce, Reuse, Recycle.  

[ratgunner]

Yep,Nothing wrong with a good debate,but we cant get at each others throats.We must stick together.I just dont understand the need to define traditional.  

[Old Ways]

In Michigan archery season is archery season. Doesn't matter what you use. Some even hunt with crossbows by special permit. What Wapiti was opening this thread with was the concern that a line has to be drawn on what is allowed to be utilized by the "hunters". If it is not regulated then at what point is it still archery. At what point is it still fair chase.

As far as a definition of tradition goes the dictionary I have says;
"3. handing down of customs: the handing down of patterns of behavior, practices, and beliefs that are valued by a culture".

Our tradition of hunting with a bow is passed down from thousands of years of using a stick and string to launch another sharpened stick at the game. It is simple, it is natural. Then comes along someones "better idea" and it suddenly wants to be given the same respect. Remember even this site doesn't recognize compounds as traditional equipment.

G. Fred Asbell (president of Compton Traditional Bowhunters) put it this way, "It is important that Compton continues to promote the use of traditional bowhunting equipment to forge ahead with a strong national identity of the traditionalist in bowhunting. It is important that non-hunters, hunters and various fish and game departments specifically see traditional bowhunting as a contrast to modern bowhunting, which on occasion tilts a bit too heavily toward instant success, with no regard for the long term cost to what began as a primitive sport and a more difficult way."

[ChuckC]

We gotta shine guys.  We, as a group, have to stand out, maybe above, but at least out.  We have to teach others, but not sound pompous or "better than".  We have to work on this, no doubt.  But it is gonna be tough to change what is.  In the end, someone else is gonna make the decision for all of us.  

I agree, we are getting way to good at killing with a bow.  And I think many people despise the fact that you can almost buy your way into a big buck.      Problem right now is...there are way too many deer.  

The collective DNR's are up to their ears in deer, and with people moving out into the former country side and further restricting hunting, it will get worse.  They will not change things to more restrictive unless this changes.  

Out west, well, that is another thing.  There is where we may start seeing some changes and hopefully people in the rest of the US will listen up.  Until we have fewer deer (which make up MOST of the big game hunts), and until we can do something about industry and their "you ain't a REAL man till you shot a Booner" mentality, I don't see any restrictions coming in the east.

Please don't take this wrong....I almost totally agree with you.  I just don't see us changing it.

Shine on guys, teach the youth what life really is.
ChuckC

[SteveB]

Try to "draw a line" on upper limits and watch for those who would push for a lower line as well.
And there might just be a lot of them pushing back if they are threatened too hard.

Steve

[Old Ways]

Just found this post from AZStickman while reading another thread and thought I would quote him here because he said it so well.

   

AZStickman - I know everyone is different but I have a hard time understanding this mindset..... Trad bows and traditional bowhunting to me are not about the pursuit of speed.... or contorting designs to make them shoot "like compounds" while allowing one to still call themselves a trad bowhunter..... Traditional bowhunting is about self imposing limitations on yourself with the equipment you choose to hunt with and then honing your woodsmanship to achieve success......In my eyes the ones who master that are the true traditional bowhunters........ Terry  

[ChuckC]

Ratgunner...the term traditional, at least in MY recollection, was not readily used until after compounds came out and the term was used to differentiate compounds from everything else before it.  Was it used before that....?  Who knows, maybe, but I think it is an easy thing to draw THAT line right there...
        Compounds / everything else.

Cross bows don't count, they are in a class of their own.  ChuckC

[ratgunner]

I agree...but WILL they ever leave it at that ? IMO I don't think this is a Hunting or Political issue.Rather it is a group of special interests lifting themselves up for thier own gain.  

[Old Ways]

I disagree. It is a hunting issue. If we do not win people over or make them see the beauty and importance of the traditional way of hunting then   we might become extinct. I don't believe in the pay-to-play mentality and I do believe the best things in life are free. I don't have a problem with supporting the continuation and management of public land but I think it is wrong for hunting to become just a sport for those who can afford it. If the media continues to depict hunting as a "game" played by weekend warriors decked out with all this high tech equipment so they can go out and "whack" bambi, it will only fuel the anti-hunters hatred and numbers. Their voice will be heard and hunting as we know (or knew)it will cease to exist. Eventually the only places left open to hunting will be high fences with big dollar fees or perhaps even they will parish.

Like ChuckC said, "We gotta shine guys. We, as a group, have to stand out, maybe above, but at least out. We have to teach others, but not sound pompous or "better than". We have to work on this, no doubt. But it is gonna be tough to change what is. In the end, someone else is gonna make the decision for all of us." (Well said Chuck)

I was once told that before you take a bulldozer to someone's house make sure they have a better one to move into. That is what we have to do. Not fight with the tech-hunters but let them see the art, skill, balance and beauty of hunting the simple way and for the right reasons. Many of us here are here because we saw the light. We decided for ourselves we were ready to leave the training wheels and gadgets behind and hunt more primatively.

We also have to respectfully reason with the anti-hunters as to why we hunt and the reasons it can actually be beneficial to the environment. (see new thread on reasoning with an anti-hunter) The more allies we have the better it will be.

[vermonster13]

There is a basic reality that must be understood and realized for any of these discussions to have merit. In the eyes of F&G Departments we are animal management tools and income for their budgets. All of the aesthetical and spiritual parts felt by each individual, while important to us, means very little to them if their goals are not achieved. The anti's fully understand that our role is such and is one of the reasons why they so vehemently support predator reintroductions in as many areas as possible. Fodder for another thread in the future, but we need to be sure we are looking at the issue clearly and not through rose-colored glasses. I deal with these issues often and am forced to be realistic regardless of my own personal feelings so as to be effective.

[wapiti]

Well said Vermontster. Thats why I hope all that read this can see that technology is not bad in itself. WE NEED TO KILL ANIMALS AS WE ARE A TOOL IN WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT. How ever The F&G/natural resource heads take into account what the public sees as ethical. That is why we don't hunt with the pod. It is a very effective tool and was legal in some states at one time. Banned for more than safety or FDA reasons. So when we talk of the tech side of hunting we need to be realistic and not start banning or trying to control all that is tech. Smart, intelligent discussion needs to take place reguarding its use. Just because I don't care for compounds dosen't mean I think they should be banned for our bowhunting seasons. Just try and ponder what is good for ALL bowhunters and "traditional" will take care of itself in the process.

[Baim]

You know, I think I'll get a compound bow with a Drop Zone arrow rest, peep, limb savers, whiskers, 6 arrow 2 piece quiver, loop, 5 Pin fiber optic sight with bubble, S-coil stabilizer and Winner Choice Strings....then feel so ashamed of myself that I end up going to Kroger to buy hamburger.