Special Season/Special Rules for Traditional bow

[Brian Krebs]

draco-you make the assumption that traditional bowhunters are not as successful (percent of kill) as compound hunters. I don't think that is correct. I believe we are comparable in the take; we ~might~ take percentage wise- more does; but we take a good percentage of game. I believe the McCallister studies back that up.

 So many of our viewpoints are due to regional differences. I can only take one deer per year-for instance.

 I also buy an elk tag that allows me to hunt during the rifle season (which I cannot force myself to enjoy as a bowhunter); and with a traditional muzzleloader for cow elk in another season.

 I am willing to exchange the any weapon season hunt; and the traditional muzzeloader hunt; for a season for traditional bowhunting: for the same amount of days.

 It would not take away time from anyone; it is biologically sound ( according to the biologists).

 I fail to see why it is not a viable idea???

The rifle hunters were the first anti-bowhunters; and I care not to side with them. I understand the biological need; and the way they inhance the intent of the 2nd ammendment. I enjoyed rife season until I hunted in a quiet woods.

 I have met great hunters that hunted only with a gun. I have met great hunters that hunt only with a compound. That is not at issue.

  I intend to defend them all when under attack.

If they cannot find the ideology to do the same for me.... then I find it more an honest positioning; wanting at least- the definition of traditional bowhunter- to exist.

[et]

Here in Idaho we all ready have a legal definition of traditional archery but we do not have a traditional hunt. Brian and others here in Idaho are willing to "give up" rifle and muzzleloader hunts we currently enjoy. We are not asking for something with out offering to give something up in return.
In order to appease bow hunters, F&G worked out a Zone system that allowed archers to retain their ability to rifle hunt if they are unsuccessful with the bow. I am willing to give up my rifle hunt to be able to drive up to Brain’s neighborhood and hunt for another couple of weeks. I would be doing this to increase my time a field not to have a better opportunity kill an elk. I am surprised that "time a field" doesn’t seem to have value to those that are against the idea of a Trad only tag.

In my zone I have a 1 week spike hunt after the archery season. With a growing family and a passion for eating wild game I take advantage of this when I don't kill with my bow. Since the Zone system has been implemented I have killed an elk every year. I'm sure that my "success' rate would go down with a trad only tag but my days a field would go up, this is a sacrifice I am willing to make and I'm sure my rifle hunting friends would appreciate a few more spikes making it to adulthood. My (trad) archery friends that I hunt with have only failed to fill their tag once since the zone was implemented. Dang near isn't fair putting a rifle in a dedicated archers hands.

Draco, out West not being as effective( effective as defined by harvest data, not effectiveness once the arrow is underway, a very big difference to me) is going to be the key to maintain the ability to hunt yearly with out drawing a tag.  The West/East schism is rather interesting and probably worthy of an essay by someone much more skilled then I am at expressing ones thoughts.

et

[coffee]

Just want to thank Scott for starting this thread and everyone else for their comments and input. I am away from home and borrowing a compter to check emails and etc. I have spent the last two hours reading every thought here.  I would say this thread probably addresses the most important issues we as Traditional bowhunters face today. My only wish is that all 30,000 Trad's -whatever would read it.  I will give thought before I give any opinion. Thanks again to all of you.

[draco]

Brian; I did`nt make any assumptions about success,I said I need more tags,meaning I fill mine too fast.We only get four tags.
et; I meant effective as in killing and not wounding. I worry that the anti`s will think we need this extra time because we ar`nt as capable at killing game as compound hunters. I think you and I both know thats not true but the anti`s dont.
From your posts I can difinitely see the situations in Idaho and Texas are vastly different. Here in Texas I would not vote for any more special seasons than we already have now. I just want more tags.   Bob

[Brian Krebs]

"I worry that the anti`s will think we need this extra time because we ar`nt as capable at killing game as compound hunters. I think you and I both know thats not true but the anti`s dont."

 Indeed. We need to work on that impression.

[KodiakBob]

I am firmly against further splitting of hunting season. If you can't kill anything during the normal archery season then learn how to bowhunt. Why do you need a special area/time? If you are afraid to hunt during gun season then stay home sell all of your gear, play videos games. What if you got caught out in the deep dark woods at night! I have hunted for over 45 years mostly on public land and have never had problem during gun season.

[Brian Krebs]

KodiakBob- feel the same way about flyfishing?

I am a pretty good bowhunter; I have taken pope and young animals; and I have taken several big game species; and I have killed over 60 big game animals with a bow- in over 30 years of serious big game bowhunting; and hundreds of small game animals- in over 50 years of bowhunting.

 Point is; that I sometimes do not kill an animal in an archery season. I disagree that not taking an animal: means I-or anyone else: should quit bowhunting.

 I am not afraid to hunt in gun season- I just plain do not like the increased number of hunters.

 However fear: would be an honest feeling to have in gun season. Its why virtually everywhere you go; gun hunters are required to wear orange.... and do note; bowhunters do not: in virtually all areas in archery seasons. When I rifle hunted; I had bullets zip by me more than once; and I have been hit by birdshot on many times. My son held on to his buddy a couple years ago; trying to stop his bleeding from a load of buckshot to the back-while waiting 45 minutes for the police and ambulance to arrive. There are bowhunting accidents; but not to compare in anyway with gun season accidents.

 When I bear hunt; I sit on stand well past dark; and walk out a mile in the dark. I have had moose run at me; been attacked by a mountain lion while walking into an elk wallow hunting spot; and I carry a large scar- as a result of a bear swatting me.

 I dont walk in the woods in fear- but if you hunt in camoflauge; while cow calling elk and bugling for elk- and would do so in gun season with your bow....like can happen here in Idaho-and NOT feel at least uncomfortable- then your just plain not being safe. IMHO

 I see more and more people shooting bows that do not require any skill at reasonable bow ranges; and the desire by business interests to make that even more do-able.

 I would like a separate season so that when the numbers of bowhunters that have no investment in hunting in a traditional way--can not have the numerical power to adversely affect bowhunting season lengths and perceptions.

 I respect your opinion; just do not agree with what you said.  

           

[draco]

From reading all your posts,Brian,I can truly understand your problem. I can tell you are mad to your very core with your situation there.
   Do you think it would be possible to get the definition of primitive archery equipment for the archery season changed instead of having a different season? Compound hunters could still hunt in the modern weapons season.
   There is only so much time in the fall and early winter months to even have diferrent seasons that I was wondering if this was a viable alternative.
   While hunting in New Mexico a game warden stopped by our camp at lunch and stayed for two hours talking. He told us that within ten years N.M. would not even have a modern gun season,only primitive musselloaders and there was already talk about the archery equipment as well. Same issues as yours,too many hunters and too much of a drain on game herds. When he decided to leave we asked him if he wanted to check our licences before he left. He said when he sees those kind of bows in a camp he knows everything is on the up and up. I took it as a compliment of the highest order. Then he told us to stay away from the roads as they had a lot of archery road hunters and there had been near accidents in the past.
   I truly sympathize with you my friend. Good luck on your quest.   Bob

[vermonster13]

New Mexico had in 2006 a total of 41,000 licensed hunters of which 4400 were bow hunters.

[Brian Krebs]

draco: the attempt at a separate hunt or even including the unit I live in has been suggested by fish and game biologists; and our representative game commissioner. Even with the season being for compound bow hunters as well as traditional bow hunters- the season has been blocked by the rifle and compound hunters.

Some support they are !!!!!!

please don't reduce the logic of having the season to my personal anger.
 It is an example of how rifle and compound bow hunters work against traditional bow hunters; and bowhunters period....to retain their rifle season.

[Bear Heart]

Here in WA you can only hunt one weapon per a Big Game species per year.  And are only allowed to harvest one per a species.  Result: Instant decline in bowhunters.  Wish it wasn't so.

[bowzonly]

First of all, let me state that I think the compound is a GREAT weapon, but I no longer chose to call it a bow and arrow  I used one for many years with great success but now I chose to hunt only with my recurve.  As far as guns go, I can count on one hand the number of times I have hunted with one in the last 25 years.  I live in the most densely populated corridor in the most densely populated state in the nation (central N.J.- please,I am not asking for your pity). Whitetail deer do thrive and are a nuisance in many areas because once gun season opens they are driven off of public land and into backyards where gun hunters can not get to them. Let me just interject at this point that even on public land bowhunters still have a good chance of taking deer because we have first crack. Also, our state bowhunting org. is responsible for starting a community based deer management program that has served as a model for many other states to follow, hence, I have no problem taking as many deer with a bow as I care to.  After three or four deer I get bored.  Whitetails are the only big game animal in the state so at that point I turn to small game.  Herein lies the problem.  Once shotgun hunting seasons open, public areas are devoid of almost all wildlife. What I would Like to propose are more archery only areas (with no distinction between bows and compounds).  We have one in my area and it never ceases to amaze me how diverse and balanced the wildlife population is.  People come from all over the tri-state area and even New England to hunt this spot.
    Thanks Bruce Garahan

[Brian Krebs]

Bruce: sounds like an example of what an area can look like when only bowhunted. Is there any scientific information availible to refer to it and the 'diverse and balanced' wildlife there?

 We do not have 'archery only areas' we do have archery only hunts- - but there seems to be a difference.

[doctari]

After reading this thread, I am also against special seasons. It sound's like Idaho F&G is the real problem. This is the reason that all hunters need to unite to keep our heritage alive. Something I have noticed is, When I go to Trad or hunting and even fishing shows, the age structure at these events are mostly all old farts like myself. I do not see many young folk at these events. We need to promote our sport, not dismantle it into seperate seasons for this weapon or that one. We also need to pass it on to our younger generation to preserve. I hunt in Michigan and Montana and hunt with my longbow only,even during rifle season's. I decide to hunt this way becuase I want to.

[laddy]

After reading this thread I am all for a special traditional archery hunting areas.  I have heard nothing but ''we all have to stick together'' and big tent theories.  What that means around here is, I stand up for the rights of the same people that are chasing deer with pickups and four wheelers at the same time squeezing guys like me out of every place we hunt.  then telling land owners that all the dead deer he finds were shot by us.  Baloney, I want no part of a"hunter'' that is that desperate to be the big man.  The last thing I want, is to be considered the same as them, I am not.  I also  have not been invited into any big tent or have I ever been apologized to for the rude behavior that has been directed towards me and my family.  So I am going to buy my own land, no guns allowed.

[vermonster13]

It seems folks who want separation only want to focus on the very small amount of hunters who are the negative side of the hunting community. There are those who make other choices for hunting weapons who would do the same about traditional bow hunters. The vast majority fall in the middle though and only want to have a hunting season that allows them an opportunity, they don't care what anyone else hunts with so long as they are legal and ethical. Most of the hunters I meet fall into that category and are the ones who make-up the Big Tent that seems to espouse so much venom from some. This subject has been beaten to death and enough is enough. Good hunting everyone and what are you doing to protect hunting and help it grow?