Wolves soon to be huntable in MT?

[Brian Krebs]

I am hunting; I have a bear bait out; and will check it tomorrow    
 I am also planning to hunt with a couple different trad gangers this fall for elk.    
 and pdk25 - your smart enough. not all defenses exclude offensive actions....

[HNTN4ELK]

I find it amusing that someone from across the continent claims to be more of an authority on what is going on in the west than those who who live here.

And you know, stick and stones may break my bones...blah blah blah....

When the season opens, yes I will try to kill a wolf, not because it is a wolf, because I can.

And yeah to me those return to nature folks are nutjobs.

Garo

[Steve Kendrot]

Have you read Aldo Leopold's "Thinking like a mountain" essay? You might find his opinion on wolves interesting. I think the Father of Wildlife Management would have whole-heartedly supported wolf restoration in the rockies...

[Brian Krebs]

I don't believe that Leopold; who was a conservationist; a person interested in biodiversity: would stick his intellect so far up his rear- that he would allow one species to consume others.

 He would want controls; and real controls; and he did hunt; and he did see the role we as hunters can participate in legitimately.

  There are no hunters in Yellowstone; but perhaps if there had been hunters ( or are there men hired to shoot elk up to their bellies in snow- and called 'professional hunters' - in that it is their 'business'; not their appeal to a 'hideous instinct').

 If there were hunters in yellowstone; they would have kept things; including wolves in balance.

  If you missed that concept; then perhaps you need to re-think it.

 For those that don't get 10 minute delivery of books from Amazon; the book referred to is about how only mountains can listen objectively to the howl of a wolf; for they have been there long enough to see the eb and flow of things; and how the howl of a wolf fits in.

 Well Steve; I have no intentions of living as long as a mountain. I am not going to enjoy watching the wolves kill off all the animals as I am now; and watch how cruel and indescriminate the wild can be; and then watch the wolf die off and come back: when there is enough to gorge itself to death again.

 I am only dancing on this earth for a short while; and I want my 'dance' to include elk hunting and deer hunting; and enjoy the break between the cyclic overpopulation of wolves.

 It may or may not interest you in knowing that my father grew up in Hagerstown Maryland; and was born on the grounds of the Maryland school for the blind; where is father grew up and his uncle Warren Bledsoe grew up.

 And there; my father read books; books- which I read as a child; books like Earnest Thompson Setons. Including the story about 'Lobo- king of Carrumpaw'. In that story a wolf doing what wolves do now; was hunted; and poisons set out; and traps; and he was only captured after his beloved Blanca (the Alpha female) was captured - then he gave up his life- and his kingdom.

 While THAT WAS JUST A STORY it is true that wolves were persecuted; and we are seeing now why. People have put out poisons. One conviction for that included poisons put out for wolves by a man - that were within two arrow flings of my cabin.

 I think it is ugly to find my canine friend- and pointing dog- Odin-- choking to death in a snare set for wolves. (my father shared his books by ~Albert Payson Terhune~ - do look up those books Steve). This situation was started with a decision to lie to the people; and reintroduce wolves over any objection by the people.

 But THERE WERE WOLVES HERE BEFORE THE 'REINTRODUCTION' !!!!!!!!!!!!

Now this mess is here; and it was all about biologists being wrong. And biologists doing things without the consent of the people: against what we adhere to doing in this country!!

 Again you mentioned Aldo Leopold and as the text books put it:

 Why is Leopold considered such an important figure in the history of environmental conservation?
1) He introduced the concepts of philosophy and ethics into conservation.
2) He espoused that humans were a part of nature not its adversary.
3) He suggested that humans needed to develop a land ethic, a basic respect for plants, animals, and resources in order to live in harmony with our natural world.
4) Although the term biodiversity was not used in his time, Leopold understood and promoted the concept that all organisms have a role in an ecosystem.


 Now Steve: ask yourself about how the wolf 'reintroduction' fills the 4 issues above?

 #1 Is it ethical to without the support of the people effected- to have brought MORE wolves into this ecosystem? Is the end result- the hatred of the wolf - a result of a poorly thought out ethical decision? I know so !!

 #2. How do humans fit into the Yellowstone plan? If it is to be a model of how nature works; what about the humans that used to live there?

 #3. How is an overpopulation of wolves to be considered 'harmony' does this thread sound harmony to you? Do the upset people sound like 'harmony' to you?

 #4. We had wolves here Steve; things were in harmony. We liked the sound of the howl of a wolf. I am an organism; and I have rights too; and you have forsaken that; and forgotten the role of the hunter in all this; especially those hunters that hunt in a way as 'old as the mountains'.
   
       for shame

[Aaron Proffitt 2]

Originally posted by Steve Kendrot:
Have you read Aldo Leopold's "Thinking like a mountain" essay? You might find his opinion on wolves interesting. I think the Father of Wildlife Management would have whole-heartedly supported wolf restoration in the rockies...

So,refering back to my earlier post...what do you figure Leopold would've had these wolves eat ? They don't have the large herds of caribou like in the Yukon or Alaska,the buffalo are gone.What's that leave ?

[HNTN4ELK]

Well, Aaron, that only leaves elk, and deer, and antelope and bighorns and angus and herefords and domestic sheep, and dogs and cats, and bear cubs, and don't forget moose and mountain goats.

The back to nature folks conveniently forget it was the hunter that started the conservation movement....Theodore Roosevelt, and his ilk, and so forth. The granola crowd came long after that.

Once the great herds of buffalo and other game was gone, the wolf had nothing to eat except the cattle and sheep and other livestock of the settlers. Ergo, the wholesale effort on predator eradication. Willow and his ancestral pals all applauded the predator eradication, because it made it safe to have Pomeranians.

Again once the season opens, I will make every effort to eradicate one wolf, because I can and will, so there.

Garo

[vermonster13]

Ok this one has run it's course.