Kansas hunters express your concerns!!

[TimDougan]

ColdWeather before they were legal in bow season you could use them in gun and muzzleloader season. Did that make them a firearm? X-bows legal in Pa. but you can't use a draw loc on a compound where do you think that came from. My brother who was the best bowhunter i know know uses a x-bow due to health issues. He does not consider it a bow he simply calls it what it is. We hunt together and always will me with my long bow and he with his x-bow its all good. No disrespect ColdWeather its simply not a bow is a blow gun a gun? I think there is room for all of us again no disrespect. TD.

[Mitch H]

WOW! More drama and disinformation than a congressional hearing.

I`ll see your 100 yard crossbow video`s, and raise you as many 150 yard and up compound video`s as you have time to watch.

For arguments sake, lets say crossbows should have their own season……..where does it fit in? It would almost assuredly mean a shortening of another season? Maybe even some rut time from the current archery season.

Are any of you willing to give up a portion of the current archery season so that you do not have to soil yourself sharing the timber(that you do not own)with some unethical heathen toting a weapon spawned by the devil himself?

I will be willing to bet that almost all who are vehemently against crossbows have never personally shot one.

Despite staged video`s shot under perfect conditions by expert shooters, crossbows simply are NOT the long range weapon many seem to think they are. I have personally shot top end crossbows from a few manufacturers. While it is true that in the hands of a rookie, a crossbow offers an advantage in the race to reaching marginal proficiency, in the hands of a good shooter, the crossbow is an inferior weapon. In more situations than not, the crossbow can be a hindrance in hunting situations when compared to a compound bow.

While personal experiences can vary, in my 40 years of bowhunting, and that experience covers more than 20 US states, 4 Canadian provinces, and off the top of my head at least 6 oversea`s countries……….hunters are hunters.

I have never seen any evidence proving that recurve/longbow hunters are any more ethical than hunters using other weapons, nor have I noticed that traditional only hunters have a higher percentage of hunters who limit themselves to their own personal range limit based on their true shooting ability.

Unlike Cold Weather, who I do not know, I do not hunt with a crossbow, and I have no desire to do so.

Like Cold Weather, I know that the crossbow has not negatively impacted an archery season anywhere they have ever been implemented. In fact, Ohio went to full inclusion around 35 years ago. Ohio has some of the best whitetail hunting in the country. 35 years ago Ohio`s deer hunting was pretty lousy.

Oh, one last point……..ALL good business owners use advertising dollars to promote their product, crossbow manufacturers are no different in that regard than bicycle manufacturers. If an advertisement can make you throw away your current vertical bow, or current bicycle, and run out and buy the model you just saw in an advertisement……..then you were not truly attached to what you already had anyhow.

Lot`s of smoke on this subject, but to date………no fire.

[TimDougan]

Mitch you make some good points. My brother would much rather carry his compound if able. He says no great advantage at his hunting ranges. Says there heavy and cumbersome i guess there is pro and cons. I have shot them just not for me. I guess my only argument is i don't see them as a bow. That's my take on this subject that being said i think it is for the best if all hunters stick together. Again no Disrespect to any one. TD.

[Mitch H]

Tim, there is no doubt that a crossbow offers some advantages in hunting situations. Not having to draw when it is time to shoot is probably the biggest plus usually stated, and it is a valid point.

I have been busted drawing my vertical bows twice since I started bowhunting, and have been afraid to even try drawing probably 4-6 times.

I have tried to draw, and was successful at it over 200 times on big game animals. There is no reason that my results should be much different than anybody else`s.

I agree with you Tim that a crossbow doesn`t seem to be like what I envision a "bow" to be either.

My defense of the weapon comes from a few simple points…..

1. It is a weapon that enjoys no longer range than a compound bow
2. It is a weapon that utilizes energy store in bent limbs, and launches an arrow via synthetic string, released by a mechanical trigger……just like a compound bow.
3. It does NOT go "BANG" when fired.

To an experienced and physically healthy bow hunter, the crossbow offers no overall advantage over a compound bow. In fact, I would argue that for hunting purposes, the crossbow is an overall disadvantage unless health issues dictate its use.

One more point……..some folks point out that bow hunters should be dedicated and practice until they are proficient. I do not disagree with that. Unfortunately, not all bow hunters are dedicated enough to do that, and allowing any government agency to dictate proficiency would be a huge mistake……all it would take is an anti-hunter to gain control of said agency and the litmus test would be 1" groups @ 1,000 yards……the end of hunting.

Since the majority of bow hunters, both wheeled and traditional readily go hunting with skills that I personally think are woefully inadequate, if a crossbow makes them more efficient, and they are going to go hunting anyhow……more power to them.

I also agree with you that hunters should stick together Tim.  

[ChuckC]

We have overlapping seasons already, several states do,  Having a crossbow season and an archery season does not mutually exclude each other.  What it does do is keep the numbers separate.  And if the stuff hits the fan in the future, it is handled separately, not all as one happy family.

In what way is a cross bow disadventageous over any form of hand held archery equipment ?  Especially in the east and south where 95% of hunting takes place from a tree or a tripod (and where a majority of archery hunters live and hunt).

Hell, from what I see you don't even have to pull it back yourself, much less hold it.  You have a scope sighting system, a trigger that is not attached to your arm,  Nope, I haven't shot a modern crossbow and have absolutely no need or use for one.  If I get to the point that I can't pull 30-35 pounds for a deer hunt, I guess I will sit and look at my pictures.  

By no means am I stating anybody else should hang it up if infirm or incapacitated in any way,  but for me, that's the answer.

There are a growing number of folks who are diching their compound and coming back to stick bows, for various reasons, but pretty much, the ease of use of the compound seems to be the main reason.  In my mind at least, crossbows are even easier.

ChuckC

[Mitch H]

Chuck, while I have never hunted with a crossbow, I have hunted enough to make some educated guess`s on how a crossbow would work in hunting situations.

First, most crossbows are very forward heavy, awkward, BIG, and clumsy. The newer reverse mounted limb crossbows are much better balanced.

Contrary to what I have read on forums such as this one before, being able to use a rifle rest out of a treestand is not the norm. Heck, in short range, woodland setups, how often do deer follow the script and walk out directly in front of you?

Speaking of wooded hunting spots……I usually have close to 100 stands up by the end of july. Those stands are in many different states. Probably 75% of those stands are set up so that my preferred shot opportunity will be behind the tree my stand is in. I shoot out the back of the tree. You are going to have a tough time pulling that off with a horizontal limb weapon.

Also, even though a crossbow is already cocked, one still has to move it somewhat to get on target, and those horizontal limbs really stand out in a vertical forest, especially when they are being moved.

On to your comment regarding concurrent seasons with different weapons…….I am not sure how that would be any different than having a weapons distinction on harvest reporting methods, whether they be mail in cards, phone in reporting, or check stations?

What "stuff" are we talking about hitting the fan? Hunting in modern times is a game management tool, no more, no less. If too many animals of a certain species are killed, seasons are shortened or temporarily closed, if not enough critters are being taken out of the herd, rifles get more time, unless it is an urban area, then archery gear gets to move into the "burbs".

As far as people coming back to stick bows because compounds/crossbows are easier to be successful with……..that was my reason for coming back. The only two critters I still have a burning desire to shoot that I have not are a cape buff, and a coastal brown bear. The bear I have no worries about tackling with a stick bow. The cape buff…….I doubt that I would feel comfortable hunting one with the poundage I am comfortable with. I will likely dust off a wheel bow one last time when I make the trip for that critter.

[Cold Weather]

far too much drop to even be considered a 100 yard weapon.

at 40-50 yards the drop is extreme.

just another type of bow.

it has its advantages and disadvantages.

what Mitch says about poor archers in bowhunting seasons is all too true.

now, on this forum, I assume most here are more dedicated bowhunters and archers.

and they assume as I did before I worked retail in the industry, that others are the same.

well, I can tell you they are not.  Lots of people shooting compounds who sky the bow, too long draw lengths.

stickbow archers who snap shoot-dont anchor-I shot with some trad archers and one person in 20 targets actually had 3 hits.

there are lots of bowhunters out there who virtually never shoot or pick up their bow before the season.

the arguments against the crossbow are pretty much the same I heard against the compound as it became established.  And all false.

the crossbow is gaining popularity all the time.  even in one archery magazine there is now a crossbow hunting column.

[Al Dente]

While I don't deny anyone's right to hunt, I do not adhere to the "big tent" theory at all.  If someone feels that hurling a grenade at a herd, or digging a pit and driving spikes into the bottom in order to harvest an animal is acceptable, I do not.   Hunting within a high fence enclosure is not sporting either, in my opinion.  Yet, there are hunters out there who disagree, and will condemn me as "not standing as one" on that issue as well.

The crossbow is a hot topic, especially here in NYS.  For decades, a VERY few individuals have been crying for the crossbow.  They claimed tens of thousands want/need a crossbow in order to hunt.  It was legalized for 2 years during the Regular (Firearms) Seasons of 2011 and 2012, with a sunset clause attached to it.  Well, you would think that after decades of wanting it, and the so-called support for it from the tens of thousands who are being DENIED the right to hunt with one, that the numbers would have told a different tale.  The total whitetail kill for 2011 was 491, and that dropped 11% in 2012 to a total whitetail kill of 438.  Where is this support?  OR, as I have claimed, along with the data to back it up, that they want the archery season, and nothing else.  They want the crossover firearms hunter to buy a crossbow and hunt during the archery season with it.

My State bowhunting organization, of which, I am the Vice President, has done more to get the physically challenged, the disabled, and the youth involved than any other within the NYS, yet we are accused of lining policticians pockets with bribes, slandered, and vilified by  the outdoor writers.

Since they cannot win with facts and data, they resort to their poisoned pens to further thier agenda.  All because we do not want to compromise the integrity of the archery season.

[Mitch H]

WOW……just wow…...

[Roger Moerke]

I agree that it may have bow in the name but that's where the simularity stops! It used to be in most states any type of locking or holding device was illegal so this is a big leap to go with cross bows. I think the mind set is let tecnology take the place of woodsmanship or a challange. After all it would be terrible if we did not get the kill if the animal is right there!!

[Bonebuster]

The debate about crossbows comes down to ONE thing.   MONEY...it is all about money...nothing more.  

I live in Michigan, where cross"bows" have pretty much taken over during archery season. I hunt almost exclusively on public land, and 90 + percent of the other hunters I encountered in the last two years have been using crossbows. Michigan requires a hunter to obtain a FREE permit when using a crossbow....I have NEVER met up with a hunter who complies with this rule, so when the MDNR releases its figures of how many hunters are using the crossbow, the numbers are WRONG!!!! So when they use those figures to estimate the impact on the deer kill data, their data is wrong.

Archery hunting has always been different than firearms season in that it required more dedication on the part of the hunter to be successfull...the crossbow removes a large part of the dedication requirement. They make it easier and that is why they are so popular...bottom line.

Popularity equates to MONEY,,more more, more.

[Cold Weather]

hmmm

compounds make it easier.  so does tree stands, shoot thru blinds.  even scent control clothing!

bowhunting is just a recreational activity.  nothing more.

[ChuckC]

It's a way of life for many of us.  One that would be sorely missed if taken away, for any reason.  
ChuckC

[Cold Weather]

Chuck

and who is taking anything away from you?  what diff does it make to you if one carries an xbow, a compound, or a longbow?

doesn't impact you in the least.