michigan antler point restrictiond

[aim small...release]

Do any of my fellow michiganders know when the results of the recent survey that will expand the antler point restriction will be out. I cant seem to find any info but I am really wanting to know. Thanks a bunch for any help.

[Mojostick]

Aim small,

I replied to your PM. I thought I'd paste it here too, since others may be interested in watching tomorrow.

Aim Small asked me if I knew when the survey results would be announced...

My reply...

Funny you ask. The survey results are announced tomorrow at the NRC meeting.

The meeting should be live streaming on MUCC...
 http://www.mucc.org/nrcstream/

I wonder what's going to happen. There's 2 different surveys. One survey is for the remaining part of the NLP that's not part of the NW13 APR counties, where a 3pt APR was surveyed and the SLP survey where the 4pt APR was surveyed. My gut is, the NLP survey will come in close to the needed 66% but that the SLP 4pt APR is going to be a harder sell.

But, it's clear from all surveys that a majority of hunters are open to changes that would get more mature bucks in the herd. So ultimately, I think the NRC will change something to get more older bucks in the herd.

If I was a betting man, I think by around June, the NRC will make a compromise and we'll get some kind of a "hunters choice rule" where if you buy the combo tag it would be like "no spike" APR for the UP, a 3pt APR in the NLP and 4pt in the SLP, but if you buy the single tag, with the new tag structure, then there's no APR. That's nothing more than a gut feeling on my part. If both surveys come in over 66%, which seems tough, then we'll end up with a statewide APR. But that just seems like a bridge too far because there's still 35-40% of hunters that hate the idea of more APR's since we already have a 4pt APR one combo tag.

Should be a good discussion.

Bob

[Mojostick]

Just so folks are clear, there are two surveys.

The NRC/DNR requires that if an APR is to be surveyed, that at least 50% of all yearling bucks must be protected in any zone, in order to make a APR change that impacts all hunters in that zone.

In the NLP, a 3pt APR protects 50% of yearling bucks but in the SLP, over half of the yearlings are NOT protected by a 3pt APR, so the survey had to be for 4pt in the SLP, in order to hit that 50% protection rate.

One survey is for the remainder of the NLP that were left out of the 13 NWLP counties currently under the 3pt APR.

The 2nd survey is for the SLP and for a 4pt on one side APR in the SLP zone.

Where things can get sticky is, what happens if one survey passes and once doesn't?

[aim small...release]

I hope that they both pass. It would be the best thing for the deer herd and those who would like to hunt more mature animals, but chances are they both will not go through

[Mojostick]

We'll find out tomorrow. I suspect both will get at least 60% approval. Getting the required 66% is the big question. Then again, the NRC can do whatever they please. If both get 62%, the NRC might just say that's a big enough majority and make a change or the surveys may come in at 70% and the NRC may say the 30% against feels screwed and they may make zero changes and throw all surveys in the can. We shall see.

[Mojostick]

One key point for all to remember-these surveys are not a vote. The surveys are not binding. There's no "election" type thing going on. The surveys are only to gauge hunter opinion on possible changes. The NRC wants to know that if they make a change, that a solid majority of hunters is behind a change. Also, even if changes are made, it's only for 5 years and then hunters will be surveyed again. If we get APR's this year but in 2019 hunters surveyed don't like it, we'll try something else.

[aim small...release]

If this goes through I think hunters will be forced to take their blinders off and change will happen and majority will see the positive changes and the ones who were against it will be smileing because they will be harvesting more mature deer. May even see some increase in out of state tsgs and increase a little revenue if there are bigger bucks to br hunted.

[Mojostick]

It will be a mixed bag for a while. The demographics seem to show that most guys under 50 are very much for APR's. For the guys 50-55 and older, they aren't nearly as open to any changes on any front and grew up in a hunting culture where bashing the DNR was as much a deer camp tradition as camp chili, beer and the card game. I doubt the anti-APR guys over 55 years old will ever openly admit that they kind of like APR's after 5 years, even if they kind of do, in private.

If one recalls, when treestands became legal for firearms, lots of the old schoolers yelled from the rooftops that treestands would be the worst thing to ever happen. Then after about 3 years, you could never find a person who claimed they were against treestands in firearms season.

[aim small...release]

Today is the day! Anticipating this very much.

[Mojostick]

Word is both came of short of the required 66% that would trigger the Wildlife Order that would continue the process.

I'll post the numbers soon.

Again, I'm thinking some type of "hunters choice", where if a person wants two buck tags, then both are some APR and if he buys a single tag for the year it's for any buck, will be the final outcome of all of this. And that may not even happen this year.

[Mojostick]

Looks like the unconfirmed word is that 62% voted yes in the NLP and 55% voted yes in the SLP. For those reading from other states, while usually in America, a majority vote wins, in this process having a simple majority isn't enough. But that's the rules set forth.

It'll be interesting to see what happens over the next few months.

[aim small...release]

I guess i am not surprised being that most are happy with mediocre deer heard and under average buck size, but those will be the ones still complaining years down the road when. there isnt going to be any decent bucks.

[Mojostick]

Actually, most aren't. The minority stopped it. In the NLP, only 38% want to keep the status quo and in the SLP only 45% want to keep the status quo.

There's still a lot that can happen. The survey was never binding. The NWLP already has a 3pt APR and 62% of the remaining NLP hunters want to join them. That's hard to ignore.

Now, I doubt we'll see full blown statewide mandatory APR's, maybe ever. I never thought the NRC would do that no matter the survey results. The NRC always looks for a don't rock the boat too much compromise. But we could see a blend where the hunter makes the choice at the point of purchase, hence the possibility of "hunters choice". That's always been my feeling since a solid minority of 35-45% are happy with spikes. MDNR needs their money from license sales. We shall see.

[Mojostick]

From watching the meeting online, it seems like the powers that be are going to do everything to look for a way to make a statewide "hunters choice" plan work. Maybe in 2014, but they were mentioning 2015 as well. If I was to bet, this will be the ultimate outcome in the next year or two.

[aim small...release]

atleast its something

[Mojostick]

Nothing is certain.