Will this steel work?

[Marvin M.]

Several years ago, I bought a couple of hoes at Wal-Mart.  Last spring was the first time in years that I was able to plant a small garden and drag those old tools out.  To make a long story short, the blades pulled off the handles and instead of trying to repair them, I'm going to buy some better hoes.  

As I was looking at them the other day (cleaning the garage) it occured to me that this might be some good knife making steel for making a small caper.  Does anybody have any experience with this type thing?  I don't know much about steel, but it seems like I should be able to work with this to make a useful tool.  

I have used a file to sharpen the hoe, so it can be cut with a file now.  It has some kind of paint/coating on it to help with rust that I will have to take off, but I would think that would be a fairly simple process.

Keep in mind that I'm an accountant by trade (although I grew up on a farm), so don't have a lot of expertise in this area.

I didn't get a picture, but it has a square neck (for lack of a bette term) welded to the blade that fits into the handle.  I'm thinking I can get one small caper and maybe a couple of trade points out of each of the hoes.

My tools are limited.  I have some files, a rotary tool, a drill press with small a sanding drum, a hack saw, and C-clamps to use as a vice.

Is this steel usable, and how should I go about this?

Thanks for the input.

Marvin

[robtattoo]

Unless you paid an awful lot for the hoes, chances are good that they'll be mild steel & unhardenable.

Sorry.

[Jeremy]

Nope, they're most likely mild cast steel.

[Marvin M.]

OK, thanks guys.  That's what I was afraid of.

[Lin Rhea]

Marvin,
        You mentioned that you have some files. An old file can make a great knife. You do have to soften (anneal) it and shape it into a blade and reharden it. If you think your up to it, I'll be available to help. Sorry about the hoes.
                                  Lin

[Marvin M.]

Lin,

Thanks for the offer, but I would need a torch to do that.  I don't have one or have good access to one right now.

Someday...........

[robtattoo]

Got a BBQ? That's pretty much all you need for a file knife!

[Marvin M.]

I've got a grill Rob.  Can I really do it with that?

If so fill me in.  I'll give it a try.

I'll sacrifice a file to have a shot at this.

[robtattoo]

***DISCLAIMER***
Playing around with fires & red hot steel is dangerous!!!! Please, please wear good heat-proof gloves, boots & eye protection before you try any of this. You'll also need a pair of Vice-grips, pipe-wrench or tongs to handle the hot steel.


Same as you would in a forge. First off, get the grill as hot as possible (I'm presuming it's charcoal???) Bury the file in the red hot coals & leave it until red hot (you'll have to stoke the fire regularly, so no nipping off for a quick beer!). If you have a good magnet, check the file whilst it's red hot to see if it's lost it's magnetism. If so, great! If not, keep it in the coals until it does.
Once it loses magnetism (This is called 'Critical Temperature') move the file to a cool part of the grill (Rake all the coals to one end, leave the file at the other) & cover with as much cooler (not cold) ash as you can. Leave it in the ash until the fire goes out (overnight is ideal) & remove the file when it's cold. This should leave you with an Annealed file. Knock off all the acumulated slag, wire brush as much of the crud off as possible til you're left with a relatively clean 'file'
Now try filing the old file with a new file (WOW! that's a bugger to type!) it should mark quite easily. If it does, you can then treat it as soft steel. Bend it, drill it, bash it about, grind it, it doesn't matter. As long as you don't burn it (Nigh on impossible without a forge or Oxy-Acetylene) you'll not harm it in any way.
You now have a piece of REAL high Carbon steel to make a knife from.
I'll post the Heat Treat cycle later, if you like.

[Marvin M.]

OK, thats a start, but my grill is propane.  

I can buy some charcoal and get a bucket or something (I suppose), but if I heat it in the propane grill, how do I cool it?  Just set it aside?

I'll post a build-along on here if I think I can make this work.  You guys can critique what I'm doing and walk me through it.  Maybe it will help anybody else who wants to try it.

[Marvin M.]

Warning:  My "play time" is usually severly limited, so it may take me a couple of months to finish this once I start -- but I will finish.

[robtattoo]

I don't think you'd get a propane grill hot enough, but if you can, all you need to do is let the file cool as slowly as possible. If you could get some charcoal in a bucket that should be perfect, but be careful of fumes coming off any galvanizing/zinc plating on the bucket.

[Marvin M.]

Ok, charcoal it is.  There used to be some fire brick out behind the plant here.  I'll take a walk later and see it it's still out there.  If it is, I'll use a few pieces to make myself a mini-oven to do this in.  

The plant here used to be a foundry.

[robtattoo]

Hah! Perfect. Now, do you know what a powerhammer looks like & would there happen to be one, y'know, sorta lying around under a tarp, in a corner, kinda thing???


 :D  :D  :D

[Marvin M.]

No idea what a powerhammer is, but I've got a two-pound, short-handled sledge.

There is actually a cupola still laying around.  Now if I could fire that thing up I could do some serious iron working.

There might even be a little coke still laying around back there.

[Forester]

I think we have just witnessed the birth of a knife maker!  Good delivery Rob!

I hope this turns out well with minimal damage and no injuries.  If it is even half a success I might be brave enough to try it.  Marvin, your enthusiasm is inspiring.  Good Luck!

[tippit]

Rob very nice job!  Your enthusiasm in the tutorial almost got me searching for a bucket of charcoal.

Marvin M,  We need pictures of your progress to becoming a bladesmith    Doc

[Marvin M.]

I don't know about being a bladesmith, but I'm willing to try.  If I can get what I need, and get this going, I will do a build-along (as a rookie) so that everyone else can see how I'm stumbling along.

A friend loaned me a book a couple of weeks ago from the 70's.  I'm working my way through it now, but looking forward to all the help you guys can give.

[Marvin M.]

I did an inventory over the weekend and don't think I have what is necessary to do this.  The fire bricks at the back of the plant are gone so heat treating will be difficult.  I've got a couple of files, but I'm not willing to sacrifice a perfeclty good file at this time.  I don't have a torch or easy access to one for heat treating, so I'm going to back off the full blown project.

However, I've ordered a knife blank and will try to do a build-along with that once I can get a little time to work on it.

Thanks for all the advice guys.

Marvin