single bevel

[Mark N]

Has anyone made and/or used a knife with a single bevel, such as a chisel edge?  What are your opinions as to ease of sharpening, edge staying sharp under normal use, ease of use, etc?
I got to thinking about it after reading Dr. Ashby's research on arrow penetration.  Any opinions on a sabre type of edge, such as Japanese swords use? Ease of field resharpening, etc?

[Ray Hammond]

They are great blades...I have made a couple..and like them. A maker of tactical knives you can find on the web builds them as a standard knife...I think his name is Jensen...with a rayskin handle and japanese style cord wrap..quite striking.

I shoot and sharpen grizzlies and get them sharper than my two edge knives...so I am a little biased but I think single bevels are the are the bomb!!!

[theunluckyhunter]

hate the way they look but they do seem practical........ might have to try one out

[Jeremy]

Where single bevel knives really shine is in very thinly slicing a delicate flesh.  There's a reason the top-end sushi knives are all single bevel and it ain't just tradition!  The same properties that cause the single bevel BH to rotate pulls the knife into the flesh, making those really thin cuts in fish a whole lot easier than with a western-style edge.

The downside to them is in sharpening them.  You need to lap the offside flat and unless there's a hollow (like with the japanese knives and chisels) there's a lot of metal to smooth.  After the initial lap it gets easier, but each sharpening still requires you to lay the whole blade flat on a stone to hone to offside - takes a bit longer than a western-style knife.

[Ray Hammond]

but since there's only one bevel to deal with, wouldnt it be the same amount of time or less to sharpen, since the flat side is a no brainer?

Not trying to start an arguement, but my experience with singles is that they are in fact quicker, once you figure out how to do them.

[Bobby Urban]

Here is a nice Sushi knife with single bevel edge that my Fiance had made for my birthday.  incedentally this is the first Brisket that I smoked in the cooker I built and it was tasty.
 http://s257.photobucket.com/albums/hh205/bushbow/?action=view¤t=SmokeRing.jpg

as far as the performance of the knife - it works well, esspecially when prepairing sushi

Bob Urban

[Ray Hammond]

thats a fine looking knife...appears to have been forged from round stock perhaps...looks very sharp.

When's supper? Brisket is my favorite.

[Bobby Urban]

Not sure Ray what it was forged from but it was a pleasant surprise to receive it as a gift and I do know she did a lot of research before making a decision on where to have it made.  It was made in Japan, which is the homeland of sushi and it has near perfect fit and finish.  Very nice craftmanship.  I would like to try and duplicate it(as close as I can) at some point now that I have the forge bug!

Bob Urban

Oh, if you are ever in mid-Michigan on a weekend look us up. We are almost always sitting around the cooker waiting for the meat to get to temp. and there is always enough to go around!

[woodsman1031]

I am just starting to learn to build knives, but would a single bevel be easier on these thin 7 1/4" saw blades?

[woodsman1031]

[robtattoo]

The real question is........


Would a single bevel pig-sticker penetrate better?


   

[Jeremy]

Ray,
It's just a lot of metal to hone.  Aside from lapping the offside flat, there normally isn't a secondary bevel, so that's a wide primary bevel to put against the stone too.  It's dead easy, just takes time.
That's where the billet construction helps with Japanese knives (and chisels).  The flat (with the hollows) is hard steel with most of the other side being a much softer steel.  Takes less effort to hone the wide bevel that way.

[Ray Hammond]

I just know it takes me about 5 minutes from out of the pack grizzly to a head that frightens most people to touch it...and after that, perhaps a minute and a half to two minutes to touch one up- tops.

To me that isnt a great deal of time. Obviously a knife is the length of two total grizzlies perhaps...but its only a single edge.

I'm not trying to indicate a single bevel knife is the perfect blade for every job...but I've no trouble finishing a broadhead thats single bevel much faster than anyone I know with a double bevel.

[Jeremy]

In sharpening a grizzly though, you're not sharpening any more metal than you would with a double bevel... it's just all on one side.

To sharpen a single bevel knife you lay the whole, wide primary bevel on the stone, then flip it over and lay the entire flat back on the stone.  You're still honing the two sides of the knife, just like a western-style knife, but you've increased the amount of steel that needs to make contact with the stone dramatically.

Think of it this way, what takes longer - getting a mirror polished edge on your knives, or mirror polishing the flats?  That's essentially what you're doing with a single bevel knife.  With the wide surfaces it's easy to hone correctly, it just takes more time to hone due to the amount of steel.

When I'm marking wood against a straight edge (or using a marking guage) I'm using a single bevel marking knife - it pulls itself into the straight edge and helps ensure the blade doesn't wander out away.  When I'm marking free hand curves or anything else, I use a double bevel marking knife - I don't want that blade to wander in any direction and the single bevels pull slightly (which is exactly why the best sushi knives are single bevel).

I have a number of japanese knives in the kitchen right now; I like the traditional construction and love the knives. Only the slicing knife is single bevel.  It excells at what it's designed for.  I love my japanese chisels as well, but again, with a wide primary bevel and no secondary bevel it takes a little longer to hone than the microbevel on my western-style chisels.  I never have to touch them to a grinder though  

[Ray Hammond]

The only thing I am doing to the flat side is taking the burr off the edge,created by sharpening the beveled side..I see what you are saying, but I guess with ten years + of sharpening single bevel heads I just don't find them as much work as a double...not that a double IS a lot of work either.... there really isn't any metal removal on the flat except for that, from what I can see on my files or stones..typically one or two strokes of the flat across the stone removes the burr and its done, any more and you are wasting time and effort, and perhaps un-sharpening the blade.

[Jeremy]

You can't really think of the knives in the same terms as a head.  With BH, the blade thickness of single and double bevel heads is the same just before the bevel starts, so whether your honing one or two bevels you're still working the same amount of metal.
Not so with the knives.  The blade thickness right before the edge bevel on a western-style knife is much thinner than that of a japanes-stlye.  The edge you're sharpening on a western knife is 1/16" or a little over per side, so you're looking at a total of a little over 1/8" of steel to hone.  The primary bevel on a japanese-style knife is going to be at leasat 1/2".  That's a whole lot more metal to work.

The same is true with a scandi grind - no secondary bevel there either.  It's dead easy to sharpen them too, just lay the flats on a stone and go at it.  But it'll take you longer to work a dull edge back to sharp, there's a lot more metal to remove.

[tippit]

As to Rob's question on Single Bevel Pig Sticker:

Great Penetration...But hold on as either the knife or the pig is gonna rotate    Doc

[Ray Hammond]

I got you now, Jeremy. I'm sometimes a little thick... its 'oldage' I think!

You got that right, Jeff! And I bet its gonna be the holder of the knife that's gonna rotate, not the piggie.

Are you in SC in late August? Need to talk if you are!