INFO: Trad Archery for Bowhunters



Author Topic: 1095  (Read 937 times)

Offline beaver#1

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 911
1095
« on: November 10, 2008, 09:36:00 PM »
i just got some 1095 steel,  ive been using old files and stuff so this id the first steel i that i bought.  anyone have any tips or suggestions about using this steel?
have i not commanded you? be strong and of good courage;be not afraid or discouraged:for the Lord your God is with you where ever you go. joshua 1:9

Offline Brad Singley

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 61
Re: 1095
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2008, 10:12:00 PM »
Hi Beaver,  
  I am not the professor on metals, but 1095 is tricky to harden,  at least it was for me.  Make sure to have your quench very close to your forge.  I think you have about 1 second to get the steel in the quench.  Hope that helps.
Brad Singley
ABS Journeyman Smith

Offline Jeremy

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 3242
Re: 1095
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2008, 07:40:00 AM »
1095 is finicky in the heat treatment.  Technically it's a water hardening steel, but for smaller blades (under 5", maybe 6") you can harden it oil.  A larger blade will need water to harden properly though.

Keep your quench oil (or water) warm (~150F) and right next to the forge.  1095 has a very hard "nose" in that you have to get it cooled down below a certain temperature very quickly for it to harden.

If you're quenching in water be Very careful of getting the blade to just barely above the critical temperature (where it no longer attracts a magnet).  If you overheat the blade even slightly and quench it in water you will crack the blade.  Overheating it slightly and quenching in oil isn't as much of a problem.

I like 1095 and mostly use it because I can easily get the effect I'm looking for in differentially hardened blades.  The 'hard nose' makes it easy.
>>>-TGMM Family Of The Bow-->
CT CE/FS Chief Instructor
"Death is not the greatest loss in life.  The greatest loss is what dies inside us while we live." - Norman Cousins

Offline kbaknife

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 2669
Re: 1095
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2008, 09:04:00 AM »
When people talk about a "nose", that is refering to a curved line on a diagram that looks somewhat like a "nose" sticking out. The diagram in mention here, shows that the temperature of the steel when it is fully austenized, for 1095, is 1475 degrees. Most steels go non-magnetic WELL below that temp, so your magnet is only an indicator that you are approaching the necessary temp. Go another color change ABOVE non-magnetic to be sure you have achieved austenite.
To turn that austenite into martensite, 1095 needs to get from 1475 to below about 1000 degrees in about 1 second. It's not how long you have to get it into the quench, but how long your quenching media has to get the steel below the temperature that will turn the steel into another form, called Banite,which is a condition of steel that is somewhat harder than the normalized condition of steel - Pearlite - but softer than the fully hardened condition of steel that knife makers are looking for - Martensite! In 1095, and some other steels, you only have one second to drop the temp below 1000 degrees.
That's why there is so much attention on using the proper quenching method. Some steels need to get over this "nose" in only 1 second, whereas other steels have as much times as 4-6 seconds before they turn into other formations that Martensite. So, different oils extract heat at different RATES to match the alloy content of the particular steel! For instance, if you used the oil for the "fast" steels on say 5160, or O1, it would cool them TOO FAST and they would probably crack. So, those steels use a "medium" speed oil - an oil that extracts heat at a slower rate.
Conversely, if you use a medium speed oil on a "fast" steel, requiring only one second to get to 1000 degrees from around 1500, the blade won't harden becasue the oil is too slow! that oil is designed to extract heat slowly instead of fast. Now that steel converted to something other than your desired formation of Martensite.
That is why some steels are always recommended as a "beginner" steel, like 5160, O1 and 1084. Their "nose" isn't all that fast! You can quench them in almost anything from used motor oil, or mineral oil, etc. and the ability of these is sufficient to achieve martensite because those steels have 4-6 secionds to get below around 1000 degrees!
When you get into other stuff like W1 and W2 and 1095 and the like, you are either quenching in FAST oils, which you must buy at high $$$$, or are quenching in water and/or brine, which can have a high failure rate (cracking!) without MUCH experience.
Wow! That's hard to type first thing in the morning.
When the last deer disappears into the morning mist,
When the last elk vanishes from the hills,
When the last buffalo falls on the plains,
I will hunt mice for I am a hunter and I must have my freedom.
Chief Joseph

Offline beaver#1

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 911
Re: 1095
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2008, 09:34:00 AM »
wow that was alot kba.  but very good stuff to know.  i have never used a water hardening steel.  i had a chart from even heat and it said that 1095 was a oil hardenind steel(they probrobly ment that fast high dollar oil you mentioned).   do you have any suggestions on tempering it. thanks alot.
0
have i not commanded you? be strong and of good courage;be not afraid or discouraged:for the Lord your God is with you where ever you go. joshua 1:9

Offline kbaknife

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 2669
Re: 1095
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2008, 09:57:00 AM »
Tempering is easy - do it in the kitchen oven.
But, tempering is futile if the steel is NOT properly hardened!
In working with 1095, I would say that the first step is to acquire the proper "oil". Yes, it IS or CAN BE an oil hardening steel, but it must be the CORRECT OIL! If you don't have the oil that will get it hard, subsequent steps almost seem unnecessary.
I'm going to send you a personal email.
When the last deer disappears into the morning mist,
When the last elk vanishes from the hills,
When the last buffalo falls on the plains,
I will hunt mice for I am a hunter and I must have my freedom.
Chief Joseph

Offline tomh

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 449
Re: 1095
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2008, 10:10:00 AM »
thanks for posting that Karl, it is helpful to see all that in perspective. Consistant heat treating has been a little bit of an issue for me. Biggest problem I think I have figured was not wanting to get the steel too hot before quenching.

Offline kbaknife

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 2669
Re: 1095
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2008, 10:59:00 AM »
It's great to be interested in such things!
What you mentioned is a considerable concern, but I see the biggest problem being not getting the steel hard in the first place, which requires just a little bit of temperature control and the proper quench medium.
If it's not fully hardened in the first place, tempering is futile.
And, you can get steel "too hot", just don't stay there long!
When the last deer disappears into the morning mist,
When the last elk vanishes from the hills,
When the last buffalo falls on the plains,
I will hunt mice for I am a hunter and I must have my freedom.
Chief Joseph

Offline tomh

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 449
Re: 1095
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2008, 06:43:00 PM »
karl, based on your post today, I nailed a good edge quench! thank you, I think I am getting a grip!

Users currently browsing this topic:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
 

Contact Us | Trad Gang.com © | User Agreement

Copyright 2003 thru 2024 ~ Trad Gang.com ©