beginner knife maker question "Steel type"

[bwillhunt]

Guys, Ive been reading and watching for a long while.  I am getting a gas forge for Christmas and want to get some good steel to go with it.  Could I get some advise on what size, grade and shape would be good to start with.  I would also like the name of the steel supplier, I will have to order it via mail. Thanks in  advance.

Bill

[4runr]

Hey Bill, How ya been?

Some body with the right answer will be along shortly.  

[Wampus]

Seems like most people start out with 5160 spring steel.  It's easy to work with and heat treat and it makes a tough knife.  Kelly Cupples is where I get my 5160 and 10XX series steel from.  You can e-mail him for his current price list.  Kelly Cupples [[email protected]]

I've also gotten forging steels steel from Admiral    http://www.admiralsteel.com/products/blades.html

[tomh]

I would recommend 1084 for your first steel. Easy to forge and simple to heat treat, to me it is easier than 5160 for your first few knives.
I have a whole bunch of both these and I bet I run out of 1084 first, I really like it!

[Ray Hammond]

I also think you should use steel that has been milled flat if you are going to do stock removal- it makes life a lot easier- its a few bucks more....but can really help your knife building look better as you get up to speed.

If you are going to actually forge a blade from raw steel...why not use round rod?

[Wampus]

Originally posted by Ray Hammond:

If you are going to actually forge a blade from raw steel...why not use round rod?

Round rod just takes a lot more work unless you have a hyd press or power hammer or rolling mill.  Basically you spend more work getting the round rod into a bar than you do forging the bar into a blade.  Also all those extra heats for the extra forging with a handheld hammer burns out carbon from the surface of the steel.  For hand tools, it's better to start out with flat bar the thickness you want the ricasso and not as wide as you want the blade.

[Ray Hammond]

good point. Sometimes its a lot cheaper though, or even available as scrap.

[Wampus]

Absolutely.  I've forged old springs, bush hog blades, etc into blades and it's good practice, but when I first started out, I was advised to buy some good flat stock known-type steel to learn on and I think that was good advice.  You can always branch out and play with scrap tool steel later.
I've got a bunch of 52100 steel in 1 1/8" round bars and I've forged a couple of blades out of that stuff with a hammer and anvil and it was WAY more work than I antcipated.  That stuff doesn't move under the hammer nearly as well as 5160, O1, 1084 etc.  I finally got my brother the millwright/welder to make me a little rolling mill and now it's quick and easy to roll that stuff into flat bar stock about 1/4" thick.  Once it gets that thin, it takes much less time in the forge each time to get it up to forging heat and it moves a lot easier under hammer than the thick rods too.

[Ray Hammond]

I can do it with my hydraulic press too when I get that done....I found plans for a 20 ton press for less than 150 bucks...I'm going to use it until I can afford a Little Giant air hammer.

[bwillhunt]

Thanks Every one for your advise.  I think I will start with some 1084.  

What should I use (fluid) to harden the steel with?

Hey Kenny When ya commin Back down?  Hope your stayin warm.  Hapyy Holidays!

Bill

[redneckrampage]

ive got a bunch of 1090 spring steel from a previous employer that i made my first blade from...then my dad helped work it in to shaving sharp after i treated it...hope i got it hard enough but i guess theres where practice comes into play

[tippit]

Wampus,  I agree that 52100 wears your elbow and hammer out before you get flat.   Then if you work it too cold it cracks.  

bwillhunt, Kelly will do right with some 5160 bar stock.  If you are just starting go flat bar stock.  Round is fine once you get used to your hammer work...tippit

[tomh]

Hi Bill, I have used vet grade mineral oil for the quench, and am about to switch to Tough Quench. Mineral oil has worked fine for me, I am just wanting to see if the tough quench will be better for 5160.
I would recommend getting your hands on Ed Caffrey's basic forging video. It will answer a LOT of questions and put you way ahead of the learning curve. Just google him or go to his sight to check it out. He is a great teacher.

[SoNevada Archer]

I would start out using 1/8" thick by 1" wide flat stock of either 5160 or 1084 leaning more to the 1084. Both work well and heat treat fairly easy. Many different types of steels forge well but for a starter, flat stock works best!
You can buy these steels from K&G out of Lakeside AZ.
Texas Knifemakers Supply
or Imperial Steel
Just look them up on the net.