Whats in an Anvil?

[razorback]

Dear Abby
I know there is a lot of information on anvils both here and all over the net. However all the info gets confusing and overwhelming after a bit. I see comments about rebound and some seem to say it is good, while others hint it is not. Some say hardy holes are important and others say not necessary. Why is a piece of 4" square piece of mild steel sunk in concrete, a good option but the Harbor Freight chinese anvils are "#@$&". Is a horn useful for knife work. Others have said that the ring of the anvil is a good sign but you don't want it to ring as it is bad for hearing.
What I would really like is to get some of your ideas on the "why's" of anvils and the choice of a certain type. I know it is a personal thing and that there is no right answer, just looking for info in the same place to make informed decision making easier.
Dazed and Confused.

Also posted this over on PaleoP so if you saw it there no need for double posting.
Thanks, Razor

[kbaknife]

Here's something you might not see anywhere else:
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e48sgIHZkw&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eanvilbrand%2Ecom%2F&feature=player_embedded

It's not that ring is good or bad, it's just that traditionally the FIRST thing to Go on an old farrier or blacksmith is his hearing! If you have an anvil that has a sharp ring, wear ear plugs.
One thing to remember is that the weight of an anvil is proportional to the weight of the hammer that is predicted to be used.
I'm not even sure what it is, but it might be something like 50 pounds of anvil to 1 pound of hammer.
Why?
Because when you smack your hot steel with the hammer, there should be an equivalent SMACK from the anvil UP! Your steel shoud be getting whacked from both sides at the same time. This can only be accomplished with an appropriate amount of MASS under the hammer to return the blow back to the steel.
If you are using a small weight anvil, your hammer blow just sort of passes right through the anvil and is absorbed by the ground/base under the anvil.
A heavy anvil returns that inertia right back to the steel.
I've experienced this myself. The heavier the anvil, the more energy of your blow is retuned to the steel.
I find that the heavier the anvil, the less qwork I need to do to get the job done.
Make sense?
A small anvil and you'll be hammerin' all day.
I have a 135 and a 167 right now but I want a 260. Less work and more efficient.
Best thing to do is spend some time at places where there are anvils to work on and find what suits you best.
This, like other facets of knife making, is pretty simple:
Buy the biggest and the best you can afford the first time.
Usually, later, you'll be stepping up anyway.

[Jeremy]

Originally posted by kbaknife:
something like 50 pounds of anvil to 1 pound of hammer.

That's the general rule I've heard from various blacksmiths.

 

This can only be accomplished with an appropriate amount of MASS under the hammer to return the blow back to the steel.

I feel this statement bears reinforcement and a little inspection.  First off, it's completely true.  The mass has to be under the hammer.  Which is why some large farrier anvils with their large, thin heels and small footprint make piss-poor general forging anvils.  It's also why if you take a 70# 4"x4"x~15" steel block on end, it'll react to your hammer blow more like a 170-200# anvil (and will be easier on your wallet).

For most work I still prefer an anvil with a smaller face.  It's what I learned on (by trial and error) and what I'm most comfortable working on.  I'm not about to give away my proper anvil though!

The hardy is nice to have, but not strictly needed.  I have a 3/4" fuller, a hot cut chisel, and a guillotine fuller for mine.  I'm sure as I start doing more blacksmithing I'll increase that list.

I decided to go with an cast iron anvil with tempered steel face.  The rebound isn't as good as steel anvil, but it's a whole lot better than a cast iron anvil and it doesn't ring overly much, which is important for neighbor relations!  

[Jeremy]

Oh, as for the horn, I watched a knifesmith pound out an even distal taper on a big bowie extremely quickly on the horn.  It was bent in a "U" when he was done and needed straightening, but I couldn't believe how fast he did it.  I've yet to try it.

[razorback]

Thanks for the great replies guy's. I am starting to get a clearer idea of what I may want or need.
Does it matter what type of steel is used if I make an anvil from a hunk of steel. I may have access to some railway track that I would turn on end and put in a bucket of concrete. Would welding some filler plates between the base and the top of the rail and then putting a plate over the top of this, improve performance and usability?
Also what height should the anvil be in relation to the user. I am 6'1", so about how high would I have the work surface. I guess it would be lower than a normal work bench, to allow for swinging room.

[Jeremy]

Go to the  AnvilFire FAQ  anvil sections (and everything else).  They have a few descriptions of rr track anvils that are decent.