$50 Knife Shop - No Wonder Custom Knives Cost so Much

[Marvin M.]

I picked up "The $50 Knife Shop" and "How to Make Knives" by Barney/Loveless.  Been reading through them.

My first impression is that there is a valid reason a custom knife costs so much!  I bet I saw the following words at least a hundred times in those two books -- "Put a new belt on your grinder and.....".  How can anyone afford that?

The $50 Knife Shop is all about reduced cost in tools, but Mr. Goddard must go through fifty belts per day.

What about it?  Do you guys use that many belts.  Just the shear number of different belts used would be enough to scare me away from opening a knife shop!!!  And then, there are the different sizes and grits of grinding wheels, buffing wheels, buffing compounds and on and on it goes.

I've decided that I can't afford to make knives.  Supplies cost too much.

Maybe I'm too cheap, but just the thought of buying a "good" set of files makes me clinch my wallet in terror.  Yard Sale tools -- you get what you pay for.

What is the minimum for a person who just wants to make a knife for himself and maybe a friend or two.  I don't want to forge (too complicated, and dangerous), so I'm thinking stock removal method.

I own a cheap (Craftsman) belt/disk sander (with one belt and one disk grit), a cheap (Harbor Freight) drill press, an Angle Grinder wiht cut-off and grinding disks, some cheap files (Harbor Freight specials), and multiple grades of sandpaper.  I don't have a torch or any other power cutting tools.

I know that there will be a learning curve to get something that I like, so I have no doubts that there will be multiple attempts until I am satisfied.  I've put together a few from purchased blades, so I'm comfortable with putting handles on, but is it feasible for a rookie to make a good (holds an edge while field dressing three deer in one day and doesn't break when it hits bone) knife with what I have available.

And don't tell me that you can do it.  I've seen your work.  Tell me if it's possible for me to do it with the above tools and without going through fifteen belts on my belt sander.

Enquiring minds want to know.

[robtattoo]

You can certainly do it with the tools you have, but you will kill a lot of belts. It's just the way it is unfortunately! When I first started out with a little 1" belt sander, I'd use probably 4-6 belts per blade.

[Ray Hammond]

Marvin, I use 3-5 belts per knife.

It takes one, sometimes 2 to grind the blade to profile

If you are building knives for yourself or friends, there's no need to do what I do- I'm working to a high standard (not as high as I'd like and not as high as I want to be by any means) but when you are SELLING knives you've got your reputation and name going on things and you don't want to skimp on belts - someone is going to be looking at my work in 50 years and I don't want them to think less of me, cause I will be dead and I can't go back and fix it then.

[Lin Rhea]

Marvin,
        You can make the same knife(within reason)entirely with handtools (files, sandpaper, drill, etc) as with all of the machinery and belts that you mentioned. It's a very satisfying thing. I recommend you do that. It will take more time and that is the trade off for not using belts on a machine. Lin

[Ray Hammond]

Lin's right- I believe Karl Anderson does not use ANY power equipment to build his knives.

[Lin Rhea]

Marvin,
        Even though I could make knives with hand tools only, I have to think about it the way Ray does. It's going to cost one way or the other in extra time or in belts(which equates to money). It depend on which one you are able to spend. If you are offering them for sale, you have to keep them affordable. Or as affordable as possible. Lin

[TxMoon]

A very wise man said "Technique and Knowledge is the largest factor in being able to build a good knife". Lin Rhea

There is so much KNOWLEDGE that has been given by  the best knife makers for free. (That was life long learning knowledge)  on the web to anyone that wants to seek it and learn.

[Kevin Evans]

I go through one or two belts per knife,especially if its an important knife to me.
I wonder sometimes if it wouldn't be more rewarding to do it the old fasion way,files ,lessor grinders,less high teck tools,granted it makes (prettier knives)but I wonder if that matters???
I sugest do with what you got and be Happy!!
Hey Ray ,I would kill for Karls shop(he's got some stuff!!!

[Montauks]

[Marvin M.]

I've got a bad case of knife envy.  You guys make absolute pieces of art.  I know that there is a major learning curve to do this and I understand that.  My time is worth a lot to me and I just don't have enough of it.  With my lifestyle and occupation I don't have/need a lot of tools.  Setting up a shop like you guys have is not feasible for me, especially just to make a few knives for myself and maybe as gifts for friends.

I didn't understand a lot of the technical stuff in those two books, but one thing that I did think about was the fact that there are a lot of things that can go wrong in the process.  All the choices of steel and how they are all different.  I've worked in a foundry and have a basic understanding of metals from that experience, but I know that I don't know enough to even begin to understand what takes place in that piece of metal when it is quenched.  Just thinking about heat treating and tempering gives me a headeache.  If I put 40 hours into a blade and then couldn't get it tempered right, I'd be really ticked!!!

I know that it can be done without that kind of shop and you can still get good quality (see the comment about learning curves earlier), but to get to the quality I want will take a lot of investment in time, which I just don't have.

I grew up on a farm, joined the USMC out of high school, then went to college to become an accountant.  I don't routinely use tools now and don't have a lot of them.  My farm raising taught me about tools, but I'd need to re-acquire some of the skills I lost over the years just to get where I need to be.  And it would probably take me a year of snatched time to make a knife that I would be satisfied with.

I admire you guys who have the time and skills to do this.  Beautiful work is displayed on here all the time.  I guess I'll just have to satisfy myself with drooling over your works for now.  

Keep up the good work.

[Marvin M.]

Montauks,

Looks easy doesn't it.  Maybe someday I'll get ambitious and try that.  I'm sure my neighbors would love having me do that in the back yard!  

He makes it look easy, that's for sure.

[Doug in MI]

Marvin
Check out the thread and photos on my first knife.I pulled it up for you. It was done entirely with a few hand tools and I had a member here heat treat it for me.
These guys here are leaps and bounds ahead of anything I can do but they have inspired and helped me alot when I asked questions they have heard a hundred time before.
I am saving for a nice belt sander and plan on building quite a few more knives for family and friends soon.
Good luck.

[Marvin M.]

Doug,

Thanks for pulling that up for me.  I'd take that as a first effort.

[OconeeDan]

Marvin, I hope you do make a few knives with what you have.  You can do it, and you'll love what you end up with.
I made my first knife with ONLY a little 6" bench grinder and a lot of sandpaper.  Total cost, maybe 10 bucks.  And  a LOT of hours.  I even used a rawhide dog chew toy for the leather.
Well, it came out looking nice and it worked well.  
It will not last through a torture test.  But used as a knife, it will last forever.
You ought to tough it out and make one, you'll not regret it.

As for expensive tools, the others have summed it up.  I have many thousands tied up in tools and materials.  My work is better now.  But that first one is still in use from time to time.
Dan

[Marvin M.]

Dan,

I've done a few the easy way (ordering a blade) and participated in the knife swap this year.  I'll ease into it and some day you'll see a posting of my first on here.

Thanks for the encouragement guys.

Marvin

[kbaknife]

Originally posted by Ray Hammond:
Lin's right- I believe Karl Anderson does not use ANY power equipment to build his knives.

Ray, I do use quite a bit of machinery to make my knives.
It's just that to enhance the life span and accuracy of many of my handle areas, I file them to shape.
Even some of the "Big Dogs" grind their handles, and I just think that's a huge mistake.
Thre are a lot of steps to be accomplished by hand, and I think the more time spent learning this will result in a better knife.
Don't think you need a "machine shop" to build a fantastic knife!

[americanhunter7]

Hang in there friend, as I am in the same boat as you...I have started the first knife project with a hand me down Western blade that a friend and I traded items for. The blade is rough, and the handle material has been giving me fits and I have gone through some sandpaper (lots of it). But like anything else worth having, there's nothing like putting the work in on a project and being able to know that you did it yourself. The other good thing about doing it yourself, you are constantly learning a lot about what works and what doesn't...and hopefully your mind will kick into overdrive to try and figure out something that will make things a little easier each time you build a knife.

[hainescustom]

You have the basic power tools to do the job without doing it all by hand and a lot of good advice. You can buy inexpensive belts to cut costs and use them for the rough work along withyour angle grinder. This will get the basic profile. To get a good finish you will need sandpaper and elbow grease. I'm like a lot of these other fellows, I started out with some very basic equipment and expanded when funds allowed. I have found, personally, that I can't get a knife with decent fit and finish without a lot of hand work finishing it out. I still haven't reached my fit and finish goals and I've been at it for 14 years part time. It depends on what you are willing to accept. This will change with time.

[Lin Rhea]

I believe you need to make knives with as little equipment as possible, at first. This teaches you what it takes to get things straight, flat,  square, etc. You are doing this by hand and eye, developing a basic feel for what it takes to form the knife to shape. Too your less likely to make a big mistake doing it with files than a machine.

Only after you get this accomplished should you try to go on to heavier equipment, such as grinders, etc. The construction principles will be the same.        Lin