blade steel question

[larry]

ok, I own a bunch of knives, never paid any attention to what kind of steel most of them are. I recently pickedd up a couple different knive by guys who advertise on here, one has 01 tool steel with a rockwell at 58-59. At a 25 degree angle on my KME I can get it scary sharp and it holds an edge real well. got another one made with ATS 34 stainless, can't get this one nearly as sharp, even going to a 22 degree angle, haven't had it long enough to know about how well it holds an edge. My question is what are other steels that have similiar qualities compared to the 01 tool steel, and is it possible to get the ATS 34 stainlees as sharp as the 01?

thanks, larry

[OconeeDan]

Larry, no doubt the ATS-34 is harder to sharpen.  But I can get it sharp.
Compared to O1, there are many carbon steels are just as easy to sharpen and will hold an edge.
The method of heat treating and tempering is more important than the type of steel.
Speaking of which, it may be possible that the ATS-34 you speak of was not treated properly?  Just a thought, but it is harder to sharpen even when properly treated.
Use a diamond stone to sharpen your stainless blade with, and follow up with hard arkansas stone for a nice sharp edge.
My ATS-34 knife that I use, I field dressed a deer and I didn't bother resharpening it, it'll still shave hair easily.  Karl will tell you that some of his blades (carbon steel) will gut a half dozen deer, and you can bet that his are properly tempered.
Dan

[mater]

I just read a very good article on steel the other night. Im trying to find it and will post if I do. It talked about stainless in peticular.
         Mark

[mater]

about.com  chemistry-why stainless is stainless
  this is where I was reading
  Mark

[larry]

thanks for the info guys

[Lin Rhea]

Lary,
     I agree with Dan. But, I would like to mention that I forge and I like steels that work well with my methods. It so happens that I think such high carbon steels are easier to sharpen too. O1, 1095, 5160, 1084, L-6, etc are all easy to forge and work well for me to heat treat myself. They will stain, but they will get scary sharp and hold a good edge. I find some satinless steels to be gummy and hard to get sharp. Not all, but most. Plus the fact that they are finicky to forge, keeps me using what I am most familar with. Good question. Lin

[larry]

so...for the knife buyer, in general, does that mean he would be better off looking for high carbon steel blades? or is it still a crap shoot based upon how they were heat treated and tempered?

oh and please forgive my total lack of knowledge in this matter.    

larry

[Lin Rhea]

Larry,
 No, it's not a crap shoot unless you try to go the "cheap", unproven, route consistantly. You get what you pay for, most of the time. You can get some great performing knives from some of the makers here on TG. Just go with the ones that are proven performers. It really boils down to the person or people behind the knife. Get to know some of the guys and dont be afraid to ask for references.

I prefer High Carbon on a real performance knife. Again, it will rust, but so will a lot of guns, if you dont wipe them down and maintain them. I live far from salt water and close to oil if I want to oil it. I dont mind a little tarnish on my blade if the performance is good and it sharpens well. The type of finish I put on the blade is easy to get back, should I want to. Weigh the pros and cons. Lin

[TOEJAMMER]

My experience as a user and not a bladesmith is if you are not bothered by the staining once you put the knife to good use, high carbon is my preferred steel.

[kbaknife]

Dan and Lin really nailed this one. Good advice there.
In the words of a good friend of mine, "Jesus Christ, Himself, could send a bar of steel down from Heaven - it will only end up as good as the heat treatment it gets."
Not sure what the problem is with getting that stainless sharp.
It was either poorly hardened/tempered, or it was hardened so well as to make it difficult to sharpen.
I made TONS of stainless blades before I switched to non-stainless. I still use a few of them to this day on a regular basis made from ATS 34 and 154CM.
I had them heat treated by D'Alton Holder, a Cutlery Hall of Fame-er. There is no doubt they were done correctly.
Correctly hardened stainless can be a pain to sharpen without diamond stones.
Here is something I always do when sharpening a blade - hold it edge up under a bright light and have some type of magnification for your eyes. It should be IMPOSSIBLE to see the edge! That means that you have sharpened it down to an infinite edge, which is what you want.
If you can see ANY reflection, that light is coming off of a flat edge which still needs to be minimized. You simply aren't done sharpening.
Now this is something I tell all of my new customers and constantly remind my old customers - the ONLY way to keep a knife sharp is to NEVER let it get dull!!
When you let stainless go dead dull, you have made a LOT of work for yourself!! A LOT!
As soon as you are no longer SCARED of your knife, take it to a stone and get it back to sharp. It only takes a few strokes if you don't let it go too far.
Ultimately, there are soooooooooooooo many aspects to a properly forged/ground/hardened/tempered blade steel that an entire industry has evolved around the individually crafted knife and the many, many types of steels they are made of.
Find one type you like. Stick with it for a while. Learn about it.
Find a knife manufacturer or maker that you like.
Take it slow.
There's a LOT to learn!

[prarieboy]

Hey larry I've been chasein this thread thanks for gittin em goin I'm learnin too! C-Ya Bob

[larry]

again, thanks for all the info. I'll pick up a diamond stone and keep trying with the SS blade