Mr. anderson, thank you very much for your advice and very quick reply.I dont post much but i feel compelled on his thread.i am NO expert...i have been forging about 5 years and took 1 bladesmithing class from herb derr.before the class i read many well known books on forging,hardening,tempering.i felt like it was somewhere between magic and rocket science.herb made me feel the opposite..."just do it ..it will be alright".not to suggest it is easy or to turn out an inferior product ...but to practice,test,forge and repeat.Don't freak out...just make a knife. sometime it is hard to find the balance ...as hard as to find the quenching temperature.but just do it and learn.thanks again for the expert advice. chad