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Author Topic: Hardening, tempering, normalizing etc.  (Read 486 times)

Offline razorback

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Hardening, tempering, normalizing etc.
« on: February 23, 2010, 08:50:00 AM »
I know I saw a real good thread that clearly and simply explained all the processes involved in this. Well it did it to a level that those of us who are just getting started could use to creat a servicable knife. Does anyone know where that thread is, i've searched and couldn't find it. It may have been on another site and if you know where that is could you send me the info in a PM.
Thanks tony
Keep the wind in your face and the sun at your back.

Offline Tyler2045

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Re: Hardening, tempering, normalizing etc.
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2010, 09:40:00 AM »
we all needs this info, well i do at least so if you find it let me know
Bear Kodiak Magnum 44# Amo 52"

42@28 Take-down. Black Creek Bows, Banshee. 60' AMO

Nay, in all things we are more than conquerors though Him that loved us. Romans 8:37

Offline razorback

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Re: Hardening, tempering, normalizing etc.
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2010, 10:08:00 AM »
It may have been on Paleoplanet or one of the other sites doing bladesmithing. I am stil looking for it and if I find it will post it. Would be something nice to have stuck to the top or in the how-to forum.
Keep the wind in your face and the sun at your back.

Offline razorback

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Re: Hardening, tempering, normalizing etc.
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2010, 10:34:00 AM »
Well a little more searching found a good thread on Paleoplanet in the Blacksmithing tutorial section, "heat treating 101, bake sale". I know the mods don't like links to other sites so I wont include it here but PM me if you need it, though you should be able to find it pretty easy.
Keep the wind in your face and the sun at your back.

Offline Jeremy

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Re: Hardening, tempering, normalizing etc.
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2010, 11:36:00 AM »
There have been quite a few indepth discussions here.  They're generally buried in a thread though

Here is a copy and paste from an article MS Ed Caffrey did on Knife Network "Creating a Blade to Pass the ABS Journeyman Smith Test"  It's a long read, but goes into everything

Choosing the proper steel is a must in order to pass the ABS JS test. I highly recommend 5160. Don't be fooled by it only having 60% carbon. With proper heat treating it will easily pass all phases of the test. I will take you through step by step, explaining the manner in which I would produce a blade to pass the ABS Journeyman Smith test with 5160 steel.

FORGING: Either 1 ¼” or 1 ½” X ¼” is the best size to start with for a test blade. Begin forging with the highest heats you intend to use. Then progressively reduce the heats throughout the forging process. Pay close attention, and do not let yourself be distracted from the forge! This is where most people let their mind wonder and without realizing it, let the blade overheat, which causes the grain to grow dramatically. The reducing heats are intended to refine grain structure as you go through the forging process. Ensure you leave extra “meat” at the edge as “sacrificial” material that will be ground away after the heat treat process. Remember that you may use either a full or hidden tang blade for the JS test, but for safety sake, I recommend forging a full tang unless you feel supremely confident that you can make a hidden tang that will pass the bend test.

NORMALIZING: This is a critical step in a high performance blade. Once forging to shape is complete, and using a magnet to determine critical temp, heat the blade to just critical, and allow it to COMPLETELY cool in still air. This has the effect of relaxing all the internal stresses that have been built up during the forging process, and will eliminate 90% of warpage problems. Multiple cycles are of great benefit, and should be experimented with to achieve optimum results in your shop.

ANNEALING: Once the blade has completely cooled, it is time to anneal. Bring the blade to a little past non-magnetic, and place in a slow cooling media. I recommend vermiculite. Sand is not a good insulator, and ashes draw moisture, which can result in hard spots (something you certainly DO NOT want at this point). I usually do my annealing in the evening, and allow the blade to cool overnight. Routinely it takes a test blade sized piece of steel 6-10 hours to fully cool in vermiculite. This step reduces grain size within the steel, and may be accomplished multiple times for added benefit. Like normalizing, multiple annealing cycles are of added benefit to both 5160 and 52100.

ROUGH GRINDING: This is simply where the blade is profiled and refined prior to the heat treatment. Distal tapers can be refined or added at this point. Ensure you leave enough extra material in the edge so as not to overheat it during hardening. I recommend about the thickness of a nickel. I choose to call this extra material “sacrificial”, as it acts like a protective shroud to what will be the working edge of the blade. After rough grinding is complete, ensure you go over the entire blade with at least a 120 grit to eliminate the possibility of stress risers that may be caused by large scratches that are left from the course grit belts.

HARDENING: Keep in mind that we are talking about 5160 steel. I recommend edge quenching ONLY on a blade that will be used for something as important as the ABS JS test. If you don’t already have one, make a “limiter plate” for your quench tank. This is nothing more than a ¼” to 3/8” thick piece of aluminum that is choked full of 3/8” holes. At each corner drill and tap a ¼” X 20 hole and use carriage bolts with the heads facing the bottom of the quench tank, and screwed into the holes at each corner of the plate. This will allow you to raise and lower the quench depth to fit any blade. Once the limiter plate is set to the proper depth (about 1/3 of the blades width), pre-heat the quenching oil (I use vet grade mineral oil, and like to quench in the 130-160F range. Be careful here; DO NOT quench when the oil is 180F or higher. At this temp the oil will not cool the steel fast enough to achieve full hardness and your blade will not pass the chopping portion of the ABS JS test.
Using approx. a #3 tip on an Oxy/Acty torch, and with a SOFT flame (a flame that does not roar, but has a very mild hiss.), start heating the ricasso area near the edge, and as soon as it starts to turn color, then work the blade back and forth until it is just past non-magnetic. Once the entire edge is an even heat, quench by placing the tip into the oil first, for a slow count of 7, and then rock the rest of edge into the oil for another slow count of 7. Continue rocking the blade back and forth in this manner until all the “fumes” have ceased. At this point slide the blade off the limiter plate, and allow it to cool COMPLETELY in the oil. Repeat the process twice more for a triple quench.
Once the final quench/cool cycle is complete, grind off the scale with a 120 or 220 grit, and get ready to temper.

TEMPERING: Pre-heat your oven to 350F. If you are using a kitchen oven, don’t trust the dial! I also strongly suggest an oven thermometer (I use two just to make sure). Let the oven cycle for 20-30 min to achieve a level, even heat, and place the blade on the middle rack for AT LEAST TWO HOURS. Allow the blade to cool to room temp between tempering cycles, and repeat for a total of three tempering cycles.

FINAL GRINDING: This is where the rubber meets the road. To this point you have set everything else up for a fine convex grind, and a nice flowing, distal taper. This can be a slow process since your dealing with a blade that has been heat treated, and you should be grinding bare handed. If the blade gets too hot to hold, then it is too hot period! I start with a fresh 50 grit belt, cleaning up the tapers and then remove excess material from the flats of the blade. I usually will flat grind with the 50 and then a 120 which will reduce weight and thin down the area just above the edge. Once I hit 220 I go to a convex grind. I do this through a modification I made to the grinder platen, where there is approx. a 2” area that is slack just below the platen, and above the lower contact wheel. Your goal at this point should be for the edge to be sharp by the time you finish with a 400 grit belt, as well as having the spine rounded and all sharp corners removed. (sharp corners can, and often do cause blades to fail in the 90-degree bend test).
Just to make things easier when hand sanding, I often go over the blade with a 600 grit belt to get as many 400 grit scratches out as possible. Once you have completed with the belt grinder, go to the bench and hand sand out all the scratches with 400 grit paper. Even though the ABS rules state that the blade need not be highly finished, DO IT! I can usually tell when a potential JS walks into my shop to test, as to whether or not they will pass, based on the outward appearance of their test blade. This is an outward and immediate indication of how careful an individual has been with the overall process. Especially if I have not met with the person before. To date, my initial predictions have not been proven wrong.

HANDLES/GUARDS/BOLSTERS: The test blade is not required to be a fully finished piece, and therefore guard and bolster are not necessary. A couple of tips that will help with the bending test are..…….
1. Choose some type of micarta or phenolic for the handle slabs. Both of these materials are very tough, and will lend support to the tang area during the bending phase of the test.
2. DO NOT use large handle bolts that force you to drill large holes in the tang! This will only serve to weaken the tang, and could cost you dearly during the test. I suggest holding the handle material in place with epoxy, and at the maximum, a couple of 1/8” pins. Maybe even just a couple of 1/8” brass pins that are piened to hold the handles.

NOTE: The thing that will get you through the test easily are paying close attention to details! Superior heat treatment, proper distal tapers to distribute the bending stresses, a fine convex grind, and rounding all sharp corners. I personally like to see a test blade that has been etched lightly in ferric chloride to reveal the temper line and the grain structure. This is also key, in that if the blade is not finished to the point where a light etch will show the temper line and grain structure, I believe it is not finished enough for the test.

Many may insist on using another type of steel, and that is fine. As long as enough experimentation has taken place to ensure all the desired characteristics are there. In the past, individuals have passed the JS test with other types of steel such as O-1 or 1095. However, these individuals had taken the time and effort to work out the "kinks". More aspiring JS applicants have passed the test with 5160 than with any other steel..................that should speak volumes!

This article is intended as a general guide to creating a blade that will pass the ABS JS tests, and is in no way a guarantee of success. Much depends on the individual bladesmith’s understanding of proper blade design in relation to function, and applying the concentration necessary throughout the ENTIRE process of creating a test blade. These are proven methods from almost 20 years of bladesmithing experience, and should be of much value to anyone interested in achieving their ABS Journeyman Smith rating.

Good Luck!!

Ed Caffrey, ABS Mastersmith
"The Montana Bladesmith"
>>>-TGMM Family Of The Bow-->
CT CE/FS Chief Instructor
"Death is not the greatest loss in life.  The greatest loss is what dies inside us while we live." - Norman Cousins

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