wrapped eye hawk method

[Scott Roush]

Anybody here make these?  I'm wondering about the best method for folding the steel over.  Can you just put it in a vise to start the bend, place some kind of mandrel into the fold and hammer over that to rough out the eye?  I have a drift that I can use to true it up.

[LAR43]

Never done it, but I'd think that's where the horn on your anvil comes into play to start the roll over, then a drift for the final shape.
I think you'd also probably want to get some borax into the overlap & stick the two sides together.
That's how I'd try to do it anyway. . .
Larry

[Scott Roush]

well I'm without a horn for right now.. .all I have is a 1 inch round bar that I try to use as a horn.

And I have a drift for the final shape... and, yeah.. you need flux for forge welding the bit into the folded mild steel.    I was just wondering if anybody had any handy tips for getting that fold.  A fella at the Smokey Mountain hammer in uses some kind of folding jig, but I didn't get a chance to see that set up....

[Lin Rhea]

It's probably a bending fork (shaped like a pipe wrench with the jaws opened just enough).

I worked on some hawks Saturday with moderate success. The first one welded good, but the overall hawk head was a little on the small side. I dont want to tak about the second one. It welded good, but I used wrought iron for the wrap and it seperated from itself. Old wagon tire. The third went well, but I pierced a solid chunk of L6 and drifted it to shape. I should have some pictures of the finished hawk in a week or so. I have to find me some mild steel strap and will make some more. Lin

[Scott Roush]

Lin... Actually it was some kind of levered device that had rollers in it. It almost looked like a come along that was modified somehow... but I only got a glimpse of a little picture. But maybe a bending fork is something I should consider....

Can't wait to see your hawks. Show us that wrought iron one too!

My first is just gonna be a rr spike punched with a piece of 5160 I fashioned into a slitter and then drift. I don't have much hope... but I'm looking forward to it.

[osageo]

this is tony bell , the way you do the wrapped eye is take 10 in. of material , like 1/4 in. by 2 in. flat bar or i make most of mine from ferriers rasps , hold it with tongs on one end , heat middle of bar , about 4 in. in forge , place something in vice or hardy hole , be quick and place middle against uprite piece and hammer other end around in u shape , quickly lay flat on anvil , hammer down two ends together even, then work your way up about 2 in. hammer two flats together, till you see eye starting to form quickly flip over hammer the other side down till partial eye lines up straight. next cut 2 in. of car spring or piece of file , put hawk blank in vise flat end straight up spread apart with chisel insert hard piese between , tack with welder and you are ready to forge weld the bit and start forming hawk blade. if you can follow my directions i'll tell you the rest . i've made hundreds of them. joebuck is teaching me how to post pics on this stupid machine , then i'll show all of you how to do some stuff. by the way i've made hundreds of hawks. tony bell - osageo

[Scott Roush]

I really appreciate it... I'm gonna try to get on this soon.  I have some farrier's rasps I was gonna do it with.  Do you flatten out the teeth on the inside? I'm assuming you do...

I was gonna do the bit a little differently... a guy told me about this at the Smokey Mountain hammer in...

Once I get the file (or mild steel or whatever) bent into a basic u-shape, I was going to insert a long piece of 1084 all the way to where the eye starts... and then forge weld it in.  Have you ever tried it that way??

[Jeremy]

If you're using a file for the hawk, there's no need to add in another piece of steel.  I've seen some real interesting hawks made out of farrier rasps!

[osageo]

yes but its very hard to forge weld it to the eye, i use some 6150 , its 5/16 on one edge and 3/16 on the other edge , this fits perfect in between when you spread the hawk blank apart. you are looking for thickness, in order to have enough material to forge the width and taper into the blade section. the 5160 is 1-1/2 in. wide. don't worry about the gap from behind bit to the semi shaped eye.when this is in place , it's time to prepare to forge weld the blade, oh yeah , about the teeth , when you heat the middle section , hammer down the teeth some , i leave the corse side on the outside. now get some tongs to hold it good by the eye section, i altered a pair of duckbill tongs to grasp the outside of the preshaped eye. the eye will look like a close teardrop shape at this point. put something like a ring or anything to clamp handles tight together tightly , place bit into forge at welding temp check often till dull glow then flux heavly,till it is well melted between the whole end. don't get too hot before fluxed real good because too hot causes carbon to surface and flake off and you will never get a good weld , slowly heat and flux then it can be left in there till you see sparks blowing out with the fire. at this point jerk it out and hammer the first blows dead center then each side , only 3 good hard licks , then a brush off reflux reheat , hammer more working towards edges . always keep at high welding temp when working towards edges forcing flux from the middle out or you'll trap some in there and the end product will have spots that weld good . you will have to scrap that piece and start over. unless you messed as many times as i have and you'll learn to fix that even. gotta go rite now. tony

[Scott Roush]

This is great stuff.... thanks a lot. Can't wait to get started.

This guy's hawks that were done that way... it just looked like the steel bit was forge welded along the entire length to the eye... But there wasn't really anything going on there. The piece just terminated and formed part of the eye. I will look in my notes and scan my drawings of it... It looked pretty simple. But so do a lot of things.  He is the one that had a great jig for bending...

Jeremy... Yeah, I know the steel is good enough in the files... I'm just kind of on a laminated steel kick right now.  I probably won't mess with the core piece until I get one good hawk from the file.

[kuch]

i have only seen it done the way osageo described , with and without additional core steel. i don't see the necessity for a jig to bend the steel into the eye, bending it even and equally is more important at this stage...you'll have to true up the shape with a drift later any way.

[kuch]

forgot to add, the "u " shaped tool that goes in the hardy hole or in the vice does the job well and can be used for multiple projects.

[osageo]

there are different methods of folding a hawk before welding it , one is take a longer piece , like the whole ferriers rasp , minus the tang , fold about 4 in. over . hammer completely flat , to the inside , then bend in u shape the rest over to reach the cutting end bring up to dull red , flux real good , start at that end with hammer peen paralell ( however you spell it) hit 3 licks reheat hammer on till you get the bit welded real good , this starts to spread and taper at the same time. this is very important, to check you reheat , remove , hold in dark place and look for shadows in it , this will show if it's welded good. i do mine with my 50 lb. little giant , with top drawing dye and flat bottom dye , made special dye i can slip onto bottom that has radius and bevel built in , this spreads and tapers at same time. i can forge weld and taper blade in one heat. now there will be lots of extra material around edges , so i can look at it and figure out which side will work best for being the top , mark out style i want it to be , cut out with band saw , best saw i ever used is a porta band stood straight up in vise , clamped by handle , built a shelf on it , works super good and blades are cheap.  all that done turn around hold blade put semi formed eye in forge heat up good and drive drift down thru eye all the way but about an in. quickly grab drift by little end , lay blade on anvil face , eye off edge hit three or four medium licks to tighten around drift , flip over to opesite side of anvil face and do the other side. then look at top see if blade and eye line up straight. you can purchase hawk drift from knife supply dealer, can't tell you who, but you will have to figure it out. i made mine out of a ironworker bull pin , took me a whole day , fits my handles perfect. all for now , one finger typing tbell.

[Scott Roush]

Thanks again...  So you fold that 4 inches over to give yourself more material and thickness to work with??

I've got a drift from Kayne&Sons.... now I just need to use it.  Hopefully this coming weekend....