Bareshaft good, but kicking severe right. What's up ?

[Gordy]

Set-up is 63#@29 BW recurve. 30" GT trads 75/95 W/5gr per in" weight tubes and 200gr. heads. 4 fletch 5".

The results are pretty good but cost me an arrow after a few shots.  The bare arrow is slightly low and right but the nock end is kicking way right. On the last shot, the arrow snapped from the impact (shooting into excelsior bale)

It is my opinion that the point weight is so much that the back end of the arrow is trying to take over the front end (?)

Sounds reasonable ?  Otherwise the fletched shafts are flying real nice.

Any opinions about this ?

[jmack]

If you're shooting left handed, then the point weight would be too much. If your shooting right handed however, then it seems it's not enough. The arrow has to bend around the riser (unless it's cut past center) to shoot in a straight line. If the arrow is too stiff, it will take off in the direction of the side of the bow it was shot from because it was not flexible enough to bend around the riser. Higher point weight will lower dynamic spine. I'm going to assume you're shooting right handed because that's a very stiff arrow for your bow, even with 200grs up front. It doesn't take much to throw your arrow off. I was getting extreme left kick out of my right handed set up, and dropping 25grs cleaned it right up.

[Smallwood]

If you are right handed , and your Arrow NOCK is kicking to the right before it reaches the target, then it's too stiff.
Shoot from 20yards--------------------------->
I would first RAISE your nock point to about 5/8" and knowing your nock point is high, shoot the bare shafts and slowly lower the nock point 1/8" at a time, until you get rid of the nock high flight.
Next, you should just be dealing with the nock left/right of the arrow which is a spine problem.
If it's kicking nock left, it's too weak.
This is how I tune, hope this helps. Also, do it on a calm day, or inside on a range because if it's windy it will give a false reading.

You might try adding a 100grn brass insert or move up to a 250grn point, or both.
Sammy

[JimmyC]

Gordy,

If your bareshafts are grouping right of your fletched shafts then you are underspined (for a right handed shooter).  Given the energy your bareshafts seem to be shedding on impact, I wonder if you aren't WAY underspined?

A super weak arrow will do very strange things (even from shot to shot).  I'd say start over using 125 grain points and go step by step per the instructions on A&H's web page.  

Also, the weight tubes throw a big variable into play if they don't fit right and/or aren't the same from arrow to arrow.  I'd make doubley sure they aren't a weak link as well.

Good Luck!

Jim

[Gordy]

Guys thanks for the response.  Jimmy the bare arrow is showing just slightly weak. Meaning in a 4" group at 15 yards (indoors)the bareshaft is always in the group just showing slightly weak. Point of impact is still in the group... point of impact is slightly low and slightly right everytime.
Which I thought was the goal in bareshafting. I've just never had a nock end kick like this in a bareshaft.

I'm going to rebuild and crimp the tubes and glue securely.  The GT chart says I'm right in there on spine and I did start out with 125 working through 145/175/and finally 200gr

One thing I've learned going through this process many times now, is patience is the key.

Will take the advice and revisit from the start.    

Who knows...maybe I still have a bad release ! ? .....no couldn't be me !

[wtpops]

GTs are 5/16s if im not mistaken and your widow is cut 3/16s past center, make sure the center of your arrow is not past the center of your riser, then tune from there.

Widows seem to like a stiff arrow, I know mine does but center of arrow past center of riser and nothing will tune.

[JimmyC]

Gordy,

You are right about the patience thing.  Now a days I will take a big clean sheet of paper with just a black circle in the middle.  I will go out and shoot 12 arrows at the most and mark my bare shaft holes with a marker.  I'll repeat this process hours later and sometimes over a couple days if I can control myself.  

It's pretty cool because you can then look at your paper (use a different color to mark the opposite shaft holes later) and the pattern/grouping will really come to light.  Errant arrows will happen but overall the pattern will give you the needed info.  You can then have full confidence in making your next adjustment.

Can't beat winter for monkeying around with new set ups!

Jim

[Gordy]

Hadn't thought of the side plate thing Rick. Thanks.

[Guru]

Gordy, seems to me that with a 75/95 you'd need a lot more wieght on the end to make them work. I know everyone's different,but when I tried them 63@28 1/2" I couldn't get enough weight on the end of them to make them work for me....

[Gordy]

Curt,  this sort of brings me back to my original post.
Is there such a thing as too much weight up front ?
Can an arrow "roll" because of too much up front ?

Will try some heavier adaptors and see what happens, but I typically shoot what the charts say with a little more weight up front and don't have too many tuning issues.

Might have several dozen carbons for sale real soon.  The 2219's are flyin just fine, just don't care for the metal.
I suppose I could try some woodies too.  

[slayer1]

Gordy, For what its worth....... this has been my experience with carbon. I shoot 62 to 65 lb bows most of the time. The 5575's act way stiffer than the charts state. any bow 59lbs or lower I use the GT 3555's, anything 60 or higher I use Carbon express 150's. Right now I am shooting a long bow cut to center 62lb @ 28" I am shooting 29.5" Carbon express 150's with 210 grains up front. They fly great. The lower poundage bows I shoot like the GT 3555. I am guessing the 5575's would start to fly good at around 70 or 75lbs. They may work if you cut them to 31" or so. I cant speak to that because I never tried it.

[Wile E. Coyote]

I agree with Guru and Slayer1. I think you will need to go with 35/55's for the best result.

[jon]

Way too stiff. Take the weight tubes out and keep adding point weight till they begin to straighten out. I have a total of 385 grains on the front of my GT 75/95's and they fly like darts.

Jon

[Gordy]

385 !    

Well, that's gotta be better than buying another 3 dozen shafts....cut to length.    :confused:

[Gordy]

100 gr brass insert, 125 steel adaptor, 160 heads ?

Sounds mean !  ordered up a bunch of different weights. won't mind getting rid of those weight tubes anyway ....

You're sure it's 385 jon ?  What is your set-up and arrow length ?

Thanks

[Shawn Leonard]

Gordy, I have to agree with jon. Those are mighty stiff, even at 30"s. If ya do not want that much weight, go with the 55/75 cut to 30"s and 200 grains up front. Shawn

[Shawn Leonard]

I should also say that spined the way Traditional arrows are(wood)13" center they spine well over 100#s. Shawn

[James Wrenn]

I did not read all the post but make sure your nocks are not tight on the string or you will have problems.Second, back up if possible so things will show up better.15 yrds is about too close.It is much easier to tell what effect changes make at longer distances. jmo