looking to make a short bow

[imsabah]

Hello everyone, I would first like to say I'm glad I found this forum. There is a wealth of knowledge available here and I'm sure I will be reading threads for a long time to come. I have a question about making a 'short' bow.

I'm aware that the general length of the bow should be determined by doubling the draw length and adding 10-20%, but this ends up almost always being over five feet long. Also I have read that shortening the length of the bow increases draw weight, but at what expense? I would like to have a bow with a 40-50# draw weight but at a length between four to five feet. Is this possible? What types of wood would this be possible with? Would it be best to construct a compound bow or single piece? Recurved or flat?

From all I have been reading I have been unable to get a straight answer, so I decided to sign up and just ask. What makes sense to me is that if its going to be short, it would be better to make a laminated bow with fiberglass sandwiching the core wood(s). The problem is if I did attempt this I dont have the slightest idea as to how thickness corresponds to length, therefore if I did make a laminated bow, and it was too thick or thin, the draw weight would suffer with minimal possibility of correction. I have a pretty good idea how thick to make a laminated bow 60-70", but I have not seen a single example of one that is under 60" (I ideally want one around 54" long. Please point me in the right direction if I have missed this topic being covered. Thank you for your time, I look forward to sharing my creations with you all.

[Pat B]

What is your draw length? Have you built a wood bow before?
I have made quite a few short osage bows; 60"t/t with static recurves. This is for my 26" draw. Some with stiff handles and some bendy handles. With sinew backed osage you could go shorter.
  An old adage for wood bow builders is...a bow fully drawn is 9/10th broken. This is with a wood bow that is pulled twice the draw length. It is difficult to bend a bow farther than that without breaking it.

[Stiks-n-Strings]

I here you on the short bow I switched over to trad about 5 or six years ago and still like short bows from #@Q$ compound days. I love trad and will never go back. I recently started learning how to build bows and have several stuck in my head but I need the first one done. The more I learn about building bows the more length in a bow I have come to like (nothing over 64" though).
 I will be watching this one.

[Frank]

I've also made many short osage bows. Some as short as my current 45" and many at my pref. length of 60".

If you sinew the back of a bow then you can abuse it a little more.  A 54" bow should handle a 27" draw just fine.  Make it a bow that bends through the handle and you can get 28" or more out of it.

If you sinew it then the sky is the limit.

 

Abusing a 45" bow.

Also decide on the limb design.  I find that short bows with a bit wider limbs are a bit more bendy than the more narrow and thick limbs.

And then there is always the set.  Set is not always a bad thing.  I've found that many unbacked bows that take a little set become very sweet shooters.

[Stiks-n-Strings]

What is the draw you have that little 45" bow at?

[Frank]

That is about 23".  I draw the bow 24" when I shoot it. It is a pretty bendy bow for one that does not bend through the handle.

You figure I have two 20" limbs bending to a draw of 24".

It may break oneday, then I'll just build another.


Oneday I may just pick up one of them thar 48" Bear bows.

[Stiks-n-Strings]

I like my Bear 48" that's for sure.
 I like the looks of that 45" osage bow.
Wonder how short I could go with an osage and still get 28" on the draw? May have to find out after I get a few under my belt.

[Frank]

The bow in my avatar is an osage 48" long, 48lb at 27" pony bow.

If you look at the limbs they are a little wider and flatter than the 45" bow.  Which is why I think I could pull it further.

Both bows have 4 plus layers of sinew.

Downstairs I have a hickory 50" ponybow that I made back in 97.  It pulls 55lbs at 27" and has three layers of sinew.  My mother just brought it down from NJ this past Thanksgiving.

I missed that bow and will be shooting it as soon as I make up some arrows.  It has taken about 1.5" of set, but it draws so nice.


12/7 today I was shooting the bow, pulling it to a 25" draw.

Sinew, natures fiberglass is awsome.

[imsabah]

Thanks for all the responses! I've found that there are numerous bows under 5ft, most of them being compound 'horsebows'. Unfortunately I am having difficulty finding much information on them (via internet) besides pictures of them for sale. Anyways, I will be attempting to make one this week using a maple (board) core and fiberglass cloth as a backing. I dont know how well it will work, but im willing to try and report with the results.

Frank, that is a very nice bow, exactly what I want to acheive for myself (for hunting in enclosed brush). Sadly, I have never worked with sinew or osage before, and knowing the properties of both, I will be working with lesser materials in my attempt. In any case, I'm looking forward to trying this out and finding out what happens. If anyone has any advice on my chosen method please advise. Again, im using a maple board (from the hardware store) and going to adhere a fiberglass cloth to it (not the lamination but the cloth).

A few quick questions though; First, can I bend these boards? If so, then should I use heat? Second, I should apply the fiberglass cloth after bending the stave, correct?

[Russell S.]

i cut some lams out of "maple" (unknown type) from the hardware store, then went to the lumber yard and got a big chunk of hard maple.  what ever home depot had it wasn't nearly as hard.  the band saw with a 6TPI blade wasn't the happiest cutting the hard maple but didn't mind the stuff from HD at all.  I did make some "test" all wood bows out of that wood they one of them 36" and drew 10# it broke some where around 22"  once i am done with the light (hopfully 10#) 48" glass backed bow i am going to try to make a 48" D/R bow about 40# backed with cloth, then break it and see where she gives up the ghost.  I will use rock maple for that one.  i am eventually going to make a horse bow or double recuve form but i too have had trouble finding anything on them.  also it seems to me like stability is going to be a problem, lots of bends in those limbs,  my goal will be to pack 66" of wood in to a bow that is about 4 feet long.. i suspect the frist few will fail.  keep us up to date.  i would like to know what you come up with.  seems like a lot of bending to not do a laminated bow...