Tiller Tree vs. Tiller Stick

[George Tsoukalas]

, Pac. Jawge

[Harperclan7]

I always pull from the center because I never rough out the arrow rest until the tillering is done. That is the way I was taught. I am like you correct me if I am doing this wronr.

[Harperclan7]

wrong not wronr sorry

[Roy from Pa]

I'm ok with you guys pulling from the center. I am only asking to question my process. However I still have to question pulling from the center. In my opinion, when the bow is done, and you are shooting it, your hand position on the bow string will be more towards the top of the handle where the arrow rest is located. Now take into account, we nock our arrows anywhere from 1/4 to even 5/8th of an inch above the arrow shelf. Which means when we draw the bow, our middle finger of our drawing hand is pretty close to the arrow shelf of the bow, top of the handle. So in my opinion, we are actualy applying the draw force with our hand on the bow string, 2 inches above the center of the handle. So therefore, say we are tillering a bow on the tree, and one time we draw from the center of the handle, and the next time we draw where the arrow shelf will be, then the tiller profile of the bow on the tree would have to be different as we are applying more pressure to the top limb. I understand that drawing from the center of the handle, will be the center of the bow, and the tiller should look pretty good. But that is not where we will draw the bow when we shoot it.

Not trying to cause any trouble here, I am just looking for information. Thanks, Roy

[Art B]

Think of it like this Roy, when you draw your bow you want to apply even strain to both limbs. The bow string is just a means to an end. If you favor more pressure towards the arrow rest when drawing then you are in fact slighting the lower limb. You want to engage both limbs evenly when drawing your bow.  

But the way you're doing it is fine also I think. Your method would fit you alone though. What I mean is, if the shoe fits, it fits only you. But for others that grip their bow differently,and have different arrow pass placement, we need a system that fits all.  As an example: try describing your method to someone that uses a full hand/low wrist grip.

Drawing a bow from center on the tillering board best suits everybody's needs. As always, just my opinion..........ART

[George Tsoukalas]

Roy, that's fine but I still suggest pulling in front of mirror, checking with a digi, or drawing in front of a window at night. What I do is I try to tiller the bottom limb a 1/2 inch stiffer on the t tree. That way it's just a little stiffer when I draw by hand. Jawge

[John Scifres]

If you are making longer bows, it won't matter a whole lot where you pull the string on the tree as long as you are within an inch or two of center.  If you are making shorter bows, it matters more.  

Dean Torges has a great article that addresses tillering.  I highly recommend it and all Dean's writings:   http://bowyersedge.com/organic.html

In it he recommends that you place the hook on the string where your middle finger will be.  Since this article came out several years ago, I have followed its advice and made better bows.  Basically, I find the center of the bow as I will hold it, balance on the fulcrum cradle on my tree.  Then I find the place on the string where my middle finger will fall and do my final tiller from those reference points.

[Art B]

A lot of things don't matter when you're doing things to suit your self John. I agree with you about where to place the tillering string/bow when you're making the bow for yourself. Problem arises when trying to convey to others that use different centered/offset handles, arrow pass placement and the different grip holds. Ol' Dean explained well his method, but his method ONLY. ART

[Roy from Pa]

In it he recommends that you place the hook on the string where your middle finger will be.  

John, that is what I am getting at here, and that is how I have always done it, it just makes sense to me. I seen those pictures above of the pull ropes centered on the handle on bow's on a tillering tree and thought, geeze that doesn't look right. I place my pull rope where I figure my middle finger will be on the bow string when I shoot the bow. Doesn't matter what type of grip a guy uses on the bow when shooting it, low wrist or high wrist. Your drawing hand will still be anywhere from 1/4 to 5/8th or even more above the top of the handle.  

George, I try to shoot for almost a 1/4 inch positive tiller on the top limb, maybe 3/16th. And if I intend to shoot the bow three fingers under, I will go for a more positive tiller.

[George Tsoukalas]

Roy, that's fine placing the string where your middle finger goes. It works. It's just that I've been making bows by tillering from the center and making the top limb around a 1/2 inch stiffer, that's on the tree and not in the hand,  for 20 years now. Heck, I'm not gonna change but no one has to do it like I do.   The bottom limb ends up even or slightly stiffer in my hand after tillering in front of a mirror if slight adjustments are needed. Besides I can have my beloved snap a digi or 2 to pretty up the bow. I have no one to please but Ole jawge and he seems to like the bows I make for him. Use Dean's method. It's better anyway. It's just that the best osage selfbowyer I've every known (Bob Holzhauser who ran Silver Arrow Archery in Derry, NH) tillered from the center and well he was my mentor kind of.  He looked at me kind of funny when I asked him that question. Like why would I ask. LOL. So I figure if it was good enough for him it's good enough for me. You should have seen the bows he made. Straight ones, crooked ones, twisted and gnarly ones. He rarely heated or steamed bows straight. He just more or less got the string on the handle and went with it.  When I walked in his shop, in the late 80's, I just had to learn how to make bows and I guess I did. But I noticed he was really patient with folks and really never argued much over bow making. Considering the magic he worked with osage, he didn't need to.The proof was in the pudding so to speak.  So that's it. Tiller where your middle finger goes. It'll work just fine. I do think you should reconsider what Art said about the importance of tillering the bow to account for where you place your hand because it changes the pivot point which will affect tiller. Bob H, we gotta go stumpin' sometime. We gotta talk bow making and solve the world's problems.    Jawge

[George Tsoukalas]

Anyway I'm a retired chem teacher trying to keep injuries down ("Mr T can we blow something up today?"). I'm just trying to keep folks safe and away from those infernal contraptions called tillering sticks. I don't care where they tiller from. At least, they are on a t tree.    Jawge

[Pac'em out]

Thank you all for the great insight.  I just finished up my flemish jig.  Now it's time to start my tillering tree.  I'll post pics when I'm done.  Thanks, again.

[Roy from Pa]

Good read George, thanks. But what's an old coot from WV, by the name of Art B know anyways?     LOL, sorry Art, I just had too:) Roy

[Art B]

That's alright Roy, going to get my   :D   when you build your bow for three fingers under with that positive tiller you mentioned  

[Roy from Pa]

Ya see what I mean ya old coot? I said a tad more for three under. Now go find yer readen specs old boy:) Or go outside and start shovelen all that snow yer getten. Supposed to get 12 to 14 inches here, and I gotta work in it tomorrow:(

[Art B]

Can't shovel rain Roy!!!    ART

[Roy from Pa]

Darn Art, we are getting hammered with snow here...

[tim-flood]

I use two pulleys cause the one I saw in PA had two pulleys, I just strung them a little different.  with two pulleys you half your effort and if you exersize your bow after wood removal you can pull your bow 100 times and that is a lot of pulling for an old man!@#$%