starting a new one

[talkingcabbage]

I need some help.  I've got an osage stave I started months ago that I'm finally getting around to.  It has some knots in the limbs, both about midlimb, and I've just got the stave roughed out.  How do I tiller with these knots?  
I'm wondering if I just rasp right over the tops of them until floor tiller stage, then work around them, or if I work around them from the start?
Do I rasp right over them and just pay attention to the bend?
I've read through a lot of build-alongs in here, but none seem to address what I would call "the actual technical side" of tillering with knots.  Even my bowyer's bible doesn't seem to answer my questions sufficiently for me.
Exactly how do I go about treating them?
 

 
Belly side

 
side view

 
other side view

 
other limb knot belly view

 
back view

Whaddya'll think?

[hova]

im just starting on a board bow , and lord help you. i dont know if i could do much with that other than break it pretty good.

if i had that piece i would work around the knots as best as possible , as it would be the only osage i had...


good luck , hope someone with some experience chimes in to hlp ya.

-hov

[Osagetree]

Rasp the belly side to floor tiller just like the rest of the limb. Same at final tiller! Most or the strength is what you leave on the backing and sides of the limb around the knot. Normaly the growth ring on the belly, around the knot will be the same ring as the rest of the belly in that area. If the knot on the backing is high, then most likely the belly will dip a bit as a result. Thus following that result of growth is what you need to keep in mind. At final tiller the area may be a bit stiffer at the knot but the natural dip in the belly that you've followed will blend in to an acceptable degree.
IMHO you have workable stave!
More experinced my differ in opinion or explanation so wait to hear from more members!!

Oh,,, be sure to stay at it and keep us posted.

[talkingcabbage]

Thanks Osagetree.  I was hoping you'd chime in.  I've seen some of your work and you're definately one of the more experienced guys here.

I was under the impression that I needed to leave more on the belly side, but your explaination makes sense.  I'm gonna (hopefully) start something on it today, so I'm sure if I run into issues, you'll be seeing more pics and questions!

Thanks again!

[Mark Smeltzer]

You have done well to leave extra wood around the sides of the knot. And I think you did the right thing by not leaving a puddle of wood around the knot on the back side. I agree with what Osagetree says about tillering.  One thing I do as i tiller....if the knot gets punky and starts falling apart I fill it with super glue.
I had one knot that went clear through the limb and made a 1/4" peep hole.

Mark

[DCM]

I don't leave knot proud, extra rings, on the back.  But even if you follow the ring, it may be raised there, as Osagetree says.  Usually the belly being flat underneath, versus dished, naturally leaves the limb thicker there.  Reduce the thickness to achieve good tiller, but most importantly, leave extra width around the knot to ensure it doesn't hinge.

I don't fill knots.  I get all the punky stuff out very early, before floor tiller, and simply leave enough wood around to compensate.  On knots that aren't completely loose, but are reasonable small, I'll pierce then though with a drill, being as careful as possible not to violate the grain.  That's the important point in call cases.  In cases, like around the fades or arrow pass, I'll fill back a pierced hole with sound wood, carefully fitted and glued with URAC (fills gaps well).  Once you get the crud out of the way, the remaining wood can be tillered to bend just like right and regular wood, usually... I've learned to never say never or always with wood bowyery.

You project looks like you got plenty of wood to work with.

I know the old hands have seen these pics a thousand times.  Please forgive, but they still serve to illustrate the point.

   

   

[talkingcabbage]

Well thanks guys for all the input.  Those pics really help.
I thought I'd post pics of my progress so far.  I've spent a good 5-6 hours so far rasping and scraping the crap out of it, and it's bending pretty good so far.  I did have one knot that I poked through the limb cuz it was pretty pukey.  And I've got another one that isn't completely loose, but it isn't really tight either, but it only goes a little into the limb, not all the way through.  I'm thinking I'll just leave it.  If it falls out later, oh well.  Anyway, here's the pics.

 
Here it's bending a few inches at a low brace height of about 3".  It's looking pretty good but the inner third needs some taken off.  I've already adjusted it since, and it's looking better, but I don't have any pics of it yet.

 
Here's the limb with the small knot I poked through.  Should I sand/round over the edges of the hole, or just leave them?  I'm okay with just leaving them, personnally, but I didn't know if it would benefit to round them over a little.

 
Here's the other limb.  I'm assuming these cracks won't really hurt anything since they don't run off the edge, but what would the more experienced do?  Again, I'm thinking just leave them and if it blows up, at least its my bow and no one else will be shooting it!

I've been working on it more since these pics, and it's bending pretty well.  I'm gonna brace it tomorrow and sneak up on the weight.  What do ya'll think?  Think I'm okay so far?  I'm not really worried about screwing it up, except for losing the time I've already got in it, but I've got plenty to try again!

Anyway, thanks for the replies and suggestions!  And thanks again for the pics.  They help a lot!

Joe

[talkingcabbage]

I should mention those cracks are in the handle out to the fades, and no more than the inner third of that limb.  I'm doing a stiff-handled bow because of them, so I don't think they'll be much of an issue.  But again, I'm open to suggestions!  Thanks to all in advance!

[Osagetree]

You're right about the inner 3rd not bending enough, glad to hear you've w orked that area more. The cracks should not give up on you and I wouldn't sand the backing around the knot very much.,if any at all. You could squirt some super glue in the cracks if it makes you feel better! Some do, some don't.

You've done well for a white eye!

You should post some other pics after shooting it in. Full draw, braced and unbraced. That would  be cool!

[talkingcabbage]

I plan to.  I should have it finished tomorrow evening, if the day goes as planned.  I'll be able to shoot it a little over the next week and really see how she does.
I did mean to ask, should I take down the belly rings around the knots, or just leave them flat with the rest of the limb?  I hope you know what I mean.
And whaddya mean a "white eye"?     If I didn't know better, I'd say them's fightin' words!