Arrow Building questions--Is this the right forum?

[wildbill001]

Now that I have a bow, I'm thinking of building some wood arrows.  (I have some carbons that I've been using.)  But I have questions and am not sure if this is the right forum for this or not.  If it isn't, could someone point me in the right direction?

All questions currently revolve around a 35-40# bow, slight off-center shelf.  These arrows would be for target use only.  Draw-length is 27" if that matters.

Q1: What size?  5/16" and 11/32" seem to be the two most popular in terms of point and nock availability.  Does size matter?

Q2: Wood and spine.  What happens if they are too light/heavy?  In other words, if I make a dz out of say, maple, and I spine them but they test out at 50# instead of 40# what should I do about that or what can I do about that?  Seems to me that the density of the wood would have an effect on spine.

I'm going wood shopping at the end of the week for some hickory to start a new bow project and thought I'd also pick up some raw materials for arrows as well.

TIA

Bill

[macbow]

Bill by far the easiest to start with is to purchase the shafts from a good source. For those weights I'd stay with the 5/16.
For the bow you plan to use I'd leave them a little long. Each inch figures to reduce spine weight effectively by 5 pounds. So buy 40 to 45 pound shafts and leave them 29 inches long to start.
You can always cut them shorter for tuning.
Another way to change spine is to add more weight to the front.
Also at that weight for target I'd opt for lighter wood maybe POC . or pine.
Ron

[wildbill001]

Purchase shafts!  Where's the fun in that?   :eek:    :D  
 
I may well end up doing that if for no other reason that to have a good reference point.  However, it's looking like I may be outfitting more than myself in the remaining months.  So if I can make them, and show my son how to make them, I'd feel bit better about it.

Thanks for the feedback, however.  

Bill

[Grey Taylor]

Q1: What size? 5/16" and 11/32" seem to be the two most popular in terms of point and nock availability. Does size matter?

For the light spines you're shooting for you'll want to go with 5/16" diameter.

Q2: Wood and spine. What happens if they are too light/heavy? In other words, if I make a dz out of say, maple, and I spine them but they test out at 50# instead of 40# what should I do about that or what can I do about that? Seems to me that the density of the wood would have an effect on spine.

Too heavy and you can get poor performance.
Too light and you can get poor performance.
Way too light and the arrow can shatter upon release, sending sharp splinters rushing by your arm and hand. If this happens there is a distinct possibility of some of those splinters coming to rest in your arm or hand.
Wood density certainly has an effect on spine. You may have to try a number of boards to find one that gives you what you want. Look at all the different spines shaft manufacturers get with just 5/16" and 11/32" diameters. It'll be the same for you, but you'll only be able to use a narrow range. Possibly you can sand down the heavier shafts to get to the right spine but you'll be getting a wide range of grain weights.
If you've got the tools, time, and desire to make your own shafts then more power to you. But frankly, with so many aspects to making milled shafts it's a lot easier to buy them.

Guy

[okie64]

I've made quite a few arrows from hickory and oak. It is hard to know what spine you'll end up with. But I have bows that range from 40-70# so I usually end up with something that will shoot. Most of the ones I make are 3/8" and they end up shooting best from a 55-60# bow. They usually end up around 700 grains with a 125 head and 29" long. I've heard cherry is good arrow material but never tried it myself.

[4est trekker]

I make all of my own arrows from 5/16" poplar dowels.  Each time I got to the lumber store I sort through the rack and cull out all the ones that have straight grain (i.e. MINIMAL runouts) and no knots.  I take them home and cut them to 30 inches, check their spine, and then weigh them in grains.  

To check the spine I built a VERY simple spine tester.  Here's the link to the page, which includes a printable diagram:

  http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,4589.0.html  

 

 

 

I use water as a weight and calibrate it using a known Easton shaft.  However, when using a known shaft to calibrate it, you need to know if it was measured on a 26" or 28" span.

I weigh them in grams using a digital kitchen scale ($15.00 at my local department store). The conversion rate is 1 gram = 15.432 grains.

I store them in bundles according to their spine weight, and in short order I gather enough to make very close tolerance matched sets.  A little hand straightening now and then keep them in good shooting order.  Lastly, be sure that runouts are few and far between and that the "V" it creates points towards the nock end.  Otherwise, if the shaft breaks there during a shot it won't impale itself into your hand.  Here's some of the finished products:

 

 

 

 

 

[George Tsoukalas]

Nice arrows, 4est. wildbill, see if this helps you.
 http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/simplearrow.html
Jawge

[wildbill001]

Nice work there 4est.  George:  good, straightforward info.

So making my own shafts can be done, can be tedious and somewhat "iffy".  Got it.  But I want to at least do some, if for no other reason than to spend some time with the grandkids and have them beam when they show their first arrow and shoot with a bow that I made them.

Thanks all !

Bill

[Pat B]

Bill, I'd suggest poplar or white pine for your first homemade arrows. You can buy both at Lowe's or Home Depot is 36"x 1/2"x 4" pieces. Pick the straightest grain you can find with no knots. Cut them into 1/2"x1/2" stock and use a thumb plane to reduce them to useable shafting. Start be removing the 4 corners with the thumb plane, then the 8 remaining corners and sand them smooth into a round shaft. You can use them at 3/8", 11/32" or 5/16" by reducing the diameter to the desired thickness.
  Arrow shafts are spines using a 28" shaft. For each inch over 28" you can reduce the effective spine weight by 5# per inch(the reverse for heavier spine). You can reduce the center portion or the full shaft to reduce the spine weight.
  Making your own arrows from scratch is not only rewarding but will teach you a lot about the physics of arrows and give you an intimate knowledge that buying them wodn't give you. It is time consuming but as far as I am concerned it is an important part ao the archery experience.

[red hill]

Great post, Bill. Very interesting discussion.
This is something I want to try this summer while school is out.
Pat, I know you usse river cane for arrow shafting. Do you use inserts to strengthen the fore and/or aft ends? I've noticed a few supply sites offer inserts made of hickory for those purposes.
Nice arras, 4est!
Stan

[hova]

i have some cane that was sent , and the arrows i made were beautiful. i didnt reinforce the shaft itself , as much as i just wrapped the nock. one of the arrows actually split while i was drilling the nock , and after the wrap , it shoots just the same.


i also do like 4est , and use dowels. my bows are mostly <45# , so i have mostly 5/16 , but a couple 3/8 logs. i havent spined  any of them , and they all have nutters on them , and craft feathers , but they work. at least on cardboard...


im in the market myself for some new shafts , cause the lauan ones have been shot into cement too many times and have shortened considerably.


4est , i have been looking for an easy spiner , and that is perfect! i was considering the water in a jar idea , but didnt know how to make the rest of it.


good luck on yer arra's , keep us posted...

[wildbill001]

Ok, I gotta ask:  "Shot into cement"?  I'm sure there is a story (or stories) there.

I was gonna say that for your next target use carpet-scraps, old clothes, etc. but then thought better of it....

Bill

[Pat B]

Stan, some folks add a hardwood foreshaft and hardwood or horn selfnock but I don't. I do use sinew wraps for the self nock and hafted points on cane and hardwood shoot shafts.  I cut self nocks right into the cane. If I'm lucky a node is near the nock but it doesn't really matter if you wrap with real sinew. You could probably get away with a thread wrap set in glue also.
  Here are a few arrows I made for hunting. They also have 4 different fletching styles and stone points from 4 different knappers. The two arrows in the middle are sourwood shoot arrows. One has an Eastern Woodland style 2 fletch and the other has a 3 feather tangential fletch of goose feathers.
 The two arrows on the outside are hill cane. The one on the right is a tied on 3fletch and the one on the left with the white tracer is my version of a 2 fletch.
 

 

 

[fish n chicks]

There are NEVER enough arrow threads IMO. 4est makes some wicked ones for sure. I wanted to make one of his spine testers but stumbled upon Captain J's...

 http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=125;t=004018#000000

Which is super sweet! I used his to come up with a simpler version my small brain could handle.

This is my knock down spine tester:

 http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=125;t=004573#000000

I used cherry shafts that I got from woodcraft, but am currently working on making my own from board stock. Hopefully it proves successful, and I will post pics of the process and results if it does.

Good luck and have fun with it.

[wildbill001]

Fish n chicks:  Well, now you've gone and done it.  There's another project to add to my "to do" list!

THANKS!  I love it.

Bill