Mulberry

[Rick James]

Hey guys I have a few Mulberry staves that I want to work but they all have really thin rings (15 to 20 per inch) and I can see where it will be very difficult to chase a ring on this wood. If you were going to back with hickory how would you go about preparing the mulberry for glue up--how would you get it flat and is it ok for rings to be violated if it is backed with hickory. What about backing with sinew?? can you have some violations and then back with sinew and have a servicable bow?
thanks, rick

[SEMO_HUNTER]

When I back an osage stave with another wood I just sand it down flat on the belt sander then use a fine sawzall blade to score it for glue up.

I've never worked with mullberry but I think it's somewhat similar to osage in the characteristics of the wood?

Don't know about the sinew, haven't used it yet.

[Art B]

Thin rings aren't a problem with mulberry IF the late/early wood ratio is good. Mulberry and sinew is a nice combo, but as with any wood, you should have an pristine back to work with IMO. For hickory backing, flatten it's back, and add the hickory. Over-simplified I know, but depending on your wood working skills, and the tools available to you, it's not a huge undertaking. Good luck......Art

[Pat B]

IMO people worry too much about thick/thin growth rings. If rings are too thin to chase do as good as you can then back it with rawhide, silk, linen or heavy paper. That should solve the thin ring/back violation problem. I never back staves with wood or boo(rigid) backing. I prefer selfbows to backed bows so I either work with what I have or use something else.
  Mulberry makes a great bow. Make it about 10% bigger all around than you would an osage bow and you will be fine. If you are uncomfortable with the back you have add a simple rawhide, cloth or paper backing for protection and build your bow.

[John Scifres]

I have never seen mulberry with that thin of rings.  It is a fast grower and rings are usually >.25" on the ones I have cut.  Where was it growing?

It should make a bow though.  I would not have grain violations with sinew but it will be fine with hickory backings.

A cool bow with that would be an ELB with rawhide backing.  Leave a couple rings of sapwood     Have fun.  Good luck.  Post pics.

[Rick James]

Hey John, it is definitley mulberry-I cut it myself off a ridge behind a pond in Burke County Georgia--I don't know too much about ELBs I'm looking to learn make something I can hunt with--I'm not a photographer but here are a few pics


 
showing sapwood
 
 
a little scrape showing oxidation
 
 

[Art B]

What size tree did your staves come from Rick? How long has it been drying? Did it have the same size rings around it's circumference? Meaning the heart of the tree was centered.

If you would take a file and clean up a section of one of the butt ends and then scrape it you'll get an excellent look at what you're dealing with. You could have a prize piece of mulberry there......Art

[Rick James]

Hey Art, I'd say it was an 8 to 10 inch trunk--If you look close on the first pic you can see that the point down at the bottom is the very center of the tree and it is about 4 inches from the edge of the sapwood and yes the rings are the same size all the way around--it has been drying for a year--I'm at work now but maybe I can clean it up some and get some better pics for you tomorrow. What is it that might make it a Prize piece of mulberry??
thanks rick

[Art B]

I think thin (but not to thin) rings just makes a better bow Rick. But you ofter see much bigger rings instead with mulberry. Sometimes an unlikely piece of wood will surprise you. Could be good or bad, but seldom in between.

That "dying for a year" kind of concerns me. If you have a good feel for wood, you should be able to tell while you're working it if it worth fooling with. Good luck with it......Art

[John Scifres]

Cool. Could be great stuff.  I think I'd have to back it for sure.  A rawhaide backing would be fine.  DO your best chasing a ring and then rawhide or sinew it.  The easiest bow to learn, in my opinion, is a bend in the handle desing like a plains indian or english longbow.  You draw length, desires, and wood limtiations should help you decide.  Have fun. Post more pics.

[don s]

forgive me if i missed reading something here and my question has already been answered. if you cut this mulberry yourself and you peeled the bark off. that will be your bows back, right? did you somehow violate the surface after you peeled the bark off? don

[Rick James]

Hey Don, I did cut this myself and it has been drying with the bark on and I just cut the bark off the other day--my intentions are to cut the sapwood off and use heartwood for the bow much like you would osage-the sapwood on this piece is a good 1/2 to 5/8 inch thick (too thick to leave it all on as a backing) and since the rings in it are just as thin as in the heartwood I didn't see any advantage to leaving any of it on... rick

[Pat B]

Don, heartwood is preferred with mulberry just like osage and locust but you can make a good bow using some or all sapwood. The more sapwood the thicker the limbs will be so that might be the trade off. An all heartwood mulberry can stand on its own with osage, locust and others because it is a physically lighter wood.
  And like John said a thin layer of sapwood on an ELB style bow would work and look good!

[frank bullitt]

I agree, leave the sapwood.

My only mulberry bow, built from a stave a friend sent me from northern Indiana.

That sapwood was the toughest I have ever took a knife too! It also had thick rings, like John mentions.

Murray Gaskins, of Georgia, sold Mulberry staves for many years. He made many types, ELBs and flatbows.

[don s]

ok guys, thanks. mulberry is in the same family as osage, correct? my experience is with board bows so far. don

[Rick James]

OK, thanks for the info guys--I cleaned up one end and got a couple more pics so you can see better

 

 

sorry about the delay in response--I ended up working some night shift overtime this past week.
So do I have this right-- rawhide backing will help hold the back together with minimal violations and Hickory would be better if violations are worse and sinew would be more suitable for a clean back?? What exactly constitutes an ELB design?
thanks again, Rick

[Art B]

It's growth rings look very good Rick. Those bigger rings near it's heart would make one fine bow. How wide is you stave across those bigger rings anyhow? Looks like the heart of the tree started out centered, and then for what ever reason, laid down more wood on one side then the other. You can tell that from the outer rings which run from being thicker on the left side to thinner on the right side of the butt end.    

If you would take the rings on down to the heart wood, narrow width to roughed out bow dimensions, chasing a ring will be much easier.

Backing a violated back with hickory is fine, but I wouldn't waste my time and materials trying to rawhide a violated back. Exception being sapwood on a yew stave.

An ELB would be longer, say your height, somewhat working handle, with a deep narrow limb design, Fairly flat back/rounded or crowned belly. Usually with horn nocks. Maybe someone one who makes this type can give you some dimensions. Good luck.......Art