Static vs working limb tips on a recurve

[Trumpkin the Dwarf]

Ok all you glass bowyers(no offense to the selfbow crowd), riddle me this. If a static limb tip does not bend(I read this as "does not do work") is the limb design less efficient(with all else being equal) than a working limb?    Also, what are the pluses and minuses of static limb tips on a recurve to an archer? Why do different bowyers build their recurves differently when it comes to the tip design?

[30coupe]

I'd be interested to hear this from a bowyer's perspective too. I have a Dryad Orion (56" and 50# @ 28") with static tips, the first static tip bow I've shot. I have a Badger 3 piece recurve that is 2" longer, but the same draw weight. The Badger has working limb tips.

I can tell you that the Orion is both faster and quieter. I was most impressed with the quiet part. It is the quietest recurve I have shot. I don't know if this is because of the static limbs, though since this is the only static limb bow I have or have shot.

Now I'll just sit back and see if we can learn why this is the case.

[arrowlauncherdj]

The lift off point of the string is delayed on a well-designed static causing less string interaction and therefore less noise, at least, that is how I understand it. Also, the static would act more like a "cam" than a working recurve and improve string angle and increase comfort on the shot.  

I once heard Sixby say that he wanted to design a recurve that acted like a longbow, or something like that... ie: the Talon was born.

Other bowyers would say that statics are more difficult to get good torsional stability due to the stiff tips and therefore the bow is less forgiving and shootability decreases.  Also, they are to me harder to make, getting glass and lams to bend that way is pretty difficult and lay-ups can be interesting.  

I personally feel there has to be a happy medium, but the discussion on static vs. semi-static vs. working recurves, will be going on for a long time. In general static vs. working boils down to one thing for me... get the max energy and least mass moving in a set of limbs to get maximum cast.

[Trumpkin the Dwarf]

Arrowlauncher welcome to Trad gang! Thanks for the reply. It makes a little bit more sense to me now.

[Bradford]

To add to this disscusion a bit.... so that being said with the tips.. which make sense... now throw in a power lam.  What are the benifits / dangers with the two working together.

I am about ready for a limb re-design, so soaking up as much info as possible.

[arrowlauncherdj]

To static a tip you can use tip wedges or just a more radical hook or combo of the two.  A power lam will move the bend further off the fades essentially giving you less working limb again.  

With all this design change, tip wedge and power lam stuff all you are essentially doing is pushing the working limb around.  But anything you do in this area can sacrifice stability.  

It almost makes you think that it is a wash, and you could just make a slightly more radical design to increase preload on a working recurve, then play with pad angles to get the same effect.  But enough bowyers obviously see the advantages of both extremes and make good bows with similar performance attributes.

[Walt Francis]

Below is a post copied from the PBS site by Larry Schwartz on, which succinctly explains the way I have always envisioned the mechanics of static and working tipped bows.  

“That design, with the thick recurve tips, is called a static recurve. It is a design that originated in Asia. It is most often associated with Bear Archery's original bowyer, Nels Grumley. Of the four models of bow he made by hand for Bear in the 1930's and 1940s three of them included this feature, although he referred to them as brush nocks a the built up area helped keep sticks and brush from getting stuck between the string and the bow limb. It is called a "static" recurve because it only "re-curves" in one place where a full working recurve limb curves/flexes all along the curve part of the limb.

The static design is less efficient than the full working recurve limb that is used by most everyone these days.
The recurving part of the limb acts like the cam or wheel on a compound bow and moves faster than the flat part of the limb as it returns to its undrawn position. This "flips" the arrow faster at each point along the recurved part of the limb, just like the cam does on a compound. On a working recurve limb you get this affect along the whole length of the curved part at the end of the limb, on a static recurve you only get this effect at one point, right before you get the long built up limb tip.

So, that's your archery history lesson for the day. I hope you found it both interesting and informative. It's always nice to know how and why your equipment does what it does.”

[rbbhunt]

There was a good post a couple of years ago on the static tip in Pow Wow.  And i disagree with the comments that a static tip is less efficient. As I own a couple of static tip bows, I feel that a well designed static tipped bow is more efficient.  The tip acts more like a lever which gives the tips a mechanical advantage.  A static tip bow will feel like it pulls lighter than it is.