Author Topic: building my first osage selfbow: recommendations  (Read 942 times)

Offline zze86

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building my first osage selfbow: recommendations
« on: April 29, 2012, 01:45:00 AM »
So I have a osage stave I've been drying for over a year now and I think it's time to start cutting her down and I'd love to hear any recommendations. I also have a few questions.

Is it recommended to slowly cut away at her with a draw knife or is it okay to "cheat" and use a bandsaw? Is it recommended to use the bandsaw for particular sections like back/belly/sides?

I mean I see the osage selfbows on here and they follow the snaking waves of the osage pretty true. Is this just stylistic/preference?

There are a couple of knots on the stave. Is it ok to saw through those?

From what I've read I understand following one growth ring on the back is a must. How important is it to follow a growth ring on the belly?
-Chee

Offline Bowjunkie

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Re: building my first osage selfbow: recommendations
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2012, 05:10:00 AM »
I can answer your questions, but for full comprehension, and answers to the meriad of other questions that will arise during the process, you need a good reference, a good forward-working direction, a good instructor.

My recommendation is to get Dean Torges' book, "Hunting the Osage Bow" and read it cover to cover, then ask questions and begin working on your osage stave. He chronicles the craft beginning to end.

Whether you use a drawknife or a bandsaw is up to you. Don't get caught up in a 'cheating/purist' mindset. Worry about getting a good bow, or two, or ten, made first. Bandsaw/drawknife? Most folks use both. I use both. Throughout the process, I use the tool that's most appropriate for the task at hand. I use the drawknife to remove the bark and sapwood and chase a single ring for the back of the bow(with the help of a spokeshave and cabinet scrapers). Then I use the bandsaw to remove bulk material and reduce the split to a size that allows quick, safe drying, or steaming and bending then drying. I use the bandsaw again once it's dry to reduce it to near bow-sized dimensions... then do the rest with hand tools.

You COULD do all bandsaw work with a drawknife, or hand axe, if you so choose, but nobody that's decent is going to condemn you for using a bandsaw while making a selfbow.

Snakey osage bows are shaped that way for a reason. In those particular bows, the grain of the wood is snakey and you must follow the grain of the wood to keep your bow from  splitting/breaking as it bends. The more you cut across the grain, the more you raise the likelyhood of failure. Straight-grained osage makes straight bows. Snakey-grained osage makes snakey bows.

Knots... looking at the back of the bow, you should try to avoid knots in your layout if possible. If it's not possible and they must be included in the limb, then you should try to leave adequate width of good, sound wood around them. If it's close to the edge of the limb, or quite sizable, most prescribe adding an amount of width to the limb at least equivalent to the diameter of the knot. In other words, don't saw through them along the edge of the limb, include them and go around them... leaving good wood around them. On the belly, you must cut through them to remove wood as you shape the bow and tiller it.

Yes, following a growth ring on the back is a must. On the belly, it's not only unnecessary, it's impossible, because in most designs, the limbs need to taper in thickness from the dips to the tips, so you will be cutting/rasping/scraping progressively down through the growth rings on the belly side as you taper the limbs. Even when making a pyramid bow, whose limb thickness is consistant and all tapering is done from the sides, you won't worry about following a single growth ring on the belly because growth rings grow thicker near the base of the tree and thinner the farther up the tree the go... so they will likely vary in thickness throughout the bow. Make any sense?

You really need to get ahold of Dean's book my friend.

Other good reference material is The Traditional Bowyer's Bibles and Paul Comstock's The Bent Stick, but Hunting the Osage Bow is by far my favorite for the journey you're about to embark on. I had only Dean's book for reference when I made my first selfbow, I had never even held one prior to that, and my first, second, third selfbows were successful and still shoot to this day.

Best of luck to ya.

Online Pat B

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Re: building my first osage selfbow: recommendations
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2012, 11:58:00 AM »
I agree 100% with Bowjunkie!  
  For an osage bow I don't think you can do better than with Dean's book. He covers all the questions you asked plus lots more.
  For a first time bowyer I would suggest Paul Comstocks "The Bent Stick".  The TBB series is a great addition to your bow building library but it is a bit pricy and lots of what was discussed in TBBI wer reputed in TBBIV, after thousands of bows from thousands of folks that learned from the first book experimented with wood bow building. That is why we are where we are in wood bow building today. None of the info was bad or false in any of these books but better ways have come about over the years.
  Another excellant book that is only been out for a couple of years is Stim Wilcox's "The Art of Making SElfbows". Stim takes you step by step and covers problems and their solutions you will probably run into while building bows.
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Offline John Scifres

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Re: building my first osage selfbow: recommendations
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2012, 05:00:00 PM »
I'd recommend hand tools for the first few.  You'll elarn more and have a better chance at not making big mistakes.  Shaping a bow with hand tools gives you some fundamentals that will make your later efforts with a bandsaw more productive too.

Depending on how thick your stave is and whether it still has bark and sapwood on it, it's probably too wet to work even after a year.  Fortunately, you can rough it out now and get it thin and it will dry within a month or two.  

Get Dean's book and follow it and you will get a good bow.  Hurry or skip steps, and you might not.

There are about a million buildalongs on this site that will help too.  And myriad "First Osage Bow" threads that will get you reading and learning for the month or two you have to wait for the stave to dry.
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Offline zze86

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Re: building my first osage selfbow: recommendations
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2012, 05:34:00 PM »
well I have a book that I was following, forget the title and author, but it didn't get into these specific questions.

For the knot question let me clarify. I know I'm supposed to leave wood around the knot and shape around it but if I have a knot on the back and I want to bandsaw cut the stave to size do I not saw through that part and basically leave a square around the knot? I mean how do I know how deep the knot goes and how high of a mound around the knot to make? maybe some pics would be better...
-Chee

Offline John Scifres

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Re: building my first osage selfbow: recommendations
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2012, 11:10:00 PM »
You just stay in the ring that forms your back.  It grew around the limb and will still be a continuous fiber if you do not violate it.  But don't flatten the back there.  There is always some amount of hump in that ring.  You will have to cut through the limb that forms the center of the knot.  

I'm not sure what you mean by "leave a square"?
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Offline Green

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Re: building my first osage selfbow: recommendations
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2015, 07:22:00 PM »
Quote
On the belly, it's not only unnecessary, it's impossible, because in most designs, the limbs need to taper in thickness from the dips to the tips, so you will be cutting/rasping/scraping progressively down through the growth rings on the belly side as you taper the limbs. [/QB]
I'm bringing this one back to the top as well.  I should have posted a few weeks ago about knots on the belly and how to handle them.  This bow I'm completing has quite a few, but I've been reluctant to work them down based on things I've read (that apparently apply more to the back of the bow).  

Here's what I dealt with on this one...and you can see one big knot near the nock on the lower limb, and as I read the above, I can work the thickness down (obviously leaving the wood on the outside of the knots) to flatten these knots/pins?

     

   

Thanks in advance for your help!
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Offline Green

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Re: building my first osage selfbow: recommendations
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2015, 11:40:00 AM »
Got brave and rasped, scraped, and sanded the knots down almost flush with the rest of the belly thickness.  Put another 40 shots across her and no blow up, so I guess I've answered my own question.....at least with this one.  Still interested to hear opinions on belly knots.
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Online Pat B

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Re: building my first osage selfbow: recommendations
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2015, 12:55:00 PM »
Rob, belly knots are generally not a problem like on the back. You should smooth them to the belly surface as you tiller. If they have pithy centers I'll add super glue, if real pithy I remove the loose stuff and layer fine saw dust and super glue until the void is filled.
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Offline Green

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Re: building my first osage selfbow: recommendations
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2015, 01:01:00 PM »
Thank You Pat.  I was really hoping you'd chime in.  I've watched and admired your work for years.  You've taught me a ton, without realizing it.     :thumbsup:
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