Cut-To-Center Clarification

[Dimondback]

Hello All,
          I was driving the other day and thinking about arrow setups for one of my latest builds in relation to data input on Stu's Calculator. Then I came to this question.....

When I build my bows and cut the sight window to the centerline of the bow, I have been using only strike plate thickness for the data input on Stu's Calcuator...The string is aligned with the center line but the arrow shaft diameter would still cause archers paradox and result in 1/2 of  the arrow's diameter and the strike plate thickness as the data input into the calculator. So a bow is only "center-shot" if the window is cut past the center line 1/2 the diameter of the arrow shaft right?....am I overthinking this? Any input would be greatly appreciated...Thanks!

Brian

[Living_waters]

To be totally accurate both in the definition and also arrow flight. The aiming of the arrow also has to take into consideration the string sliding off the fingers. To explain,  if you over cut window to make the arrows centerline to be exactly centerline of bow and you have a 3/4 inch deflection with your fingers a right hand shooter theoretically torques the arrows spine to the left. But there are many other factors that people dont consider that effects paradox, for instants string twist and twist direction also cause slight deflection changes.
So technically a true center shot would take into into account arrow diameter and strike plate thickness. This in my opinion would be important if you are working on the evolution of the wheeled monster towards true firearms status. But if you prefer to take advantage of the free grace that defines the laws of archery and compensates for the human and natural condition, then these issues are of little importance. I find more "awwww" in the fact my less then perfect form can draw a bow thats arrow is pointed at my left foot can upon release bend and flex and alter flight to strike a target with pinpoint accuracy time after time, then if the arrow gains 2.7fps by changing brands of releases.
Just my opinion

[Roy from Pa]

I find more "awwww" in the fact my less then perfect form can draw a bow thats arrow is pointed at my left foot can upon release bend and flex and alter flight to strike a target with pinpoint accuracy time after time.

Pinpoint accuracy Huh? This I gotta see:)

[Dimondback]

I get that same satisfaction (maybe not Pinpoint Accuracy but good enough to be comfortable out to 15-18yds on deer though    ) which is why I dropped "wheelies" altogether. I am just making sure my definition of "cut-to-center" is the same as everyone elses and also ensuring numbers that I use in Stu's Calculator are accurate enough to get me close on shaft spine and length to eliminate some of the cutting/tuning time (more to help others to get tuned after they get one of my bows than for my own needs).

[Living_waters]

Originally posted by Roy from Pa:
 Pinpoint accuracy Huh? This I gotta see:)

Now Roy You know as we get older our recollection of size and the reality of size can begin to differ. I never said how big my pinpoint was  

[Living_waters]

diamondback I guess I should have just said for the majority of people your definition would be more then accurate. The 11/64" (depending on arrow size) would be more effected by human interaction then that and that cant be calculated. For instance an arrow shelf 1inch above center would take just a few degrees of cant to compensate for, and that would change any calculations used.

[Dimondback]

Originally posted by Living_waters:
For instance an arrow shelf 1inch above center would take just a few degrees of cant to compensate for, and that would change any calculations used.

Thanks for the input guys, I agree about form issue affecting this however, my area of concern is not the shelf "height" above center up and down (I belive I nomally cut that to 1.25-1.5" for split finger with no issues).

I am referring to "cut to center" as it relates to the shelf being cut to center from the side of the bow as it affects the amount the arrow "bends" around the sight window. This measurement affects the spine of the arrow that you will shoot along with draw weight and length, arrow length etc, etc as I understand it.

For example: Bow "cut-to-center" with a 1/16" strike plate attached, turns the bow into a "1/16" cut-before-center bow and effectively weakens the spine of the arrow...

or...3/4 in wide bendy handled bow with a leather rest glued on the side would be the equivalent of 3/8" cut-before center, again weakening the effective spine of the same arrow.

Hopefully this clarifies some...I am just trying to make sure my inputs into Stu's calculator are accurate and that my definition of cut-to-center is accurate before I go around spreading myths and tales...

[Living_waters]

Understood. my point was to only illustrate that unless your dead center both cut and height then small adjustments in how one holds the bow moves the true center right or left. If your arrow is spined correct then these small variables in the equation matter little or so little to effect arrow beyond what skill level will overshadow.  
Your inputs are as accurate as humanly possible sorry if it came off any different.

[Dimondback]

Thanks Living-waters"...I have absolutely no doubt that my skill-level issues are overshadowing those details  

[bamboo]

cut to center means just that---window cut to the center line--cut past center means the cut is deeper[most allow for 1/2 arrow dia.]

[kennym]

I usually cut to center, then sanding and file work put me slightly past center.

The strike plate moves it back out to before center, which is what I like.

I think the arrows need to be forced to bend the same way each shot(away from plate)

But thats just my opinion, no proof on the matter!

[soy]

Please do pardon my intrusion... but what exactly is Stu's calculator? I'm only familiar with the construction of primitive equipment... is this cut to center more of a traditional term as cutting to the center would frighten me greatly...  

[Dimondback]

Thanks Bamboo/Kenny! That was exactly what I was looking for...I thought I was on the right track but needed to hear it from the folks who taught me all this in the first place. (Needed to make sure the cut to center wasn't actually cut-past-center by 1/2 the diameter of an arrow) Good to go! Thanks again! No more silly questions out of me for a few.

[kennym]

No such thing as a silly question! Inquiring minds need to know!

Soy , Stus calculator is a chart to see what spine shaft your bow will like. You plug in some info and it declares what arrow to start with.

And cutting to center is usually on glass bows... I think(not a selfbow guy!)

[Dimondback]

Soy,
    What Kenny said, Excell based calculator where you input your bow and arrow specs and it gives you a relitive idea of where to start on arrow selection. It only works well if the numbers relating to your equipment are as accurate as possible and even then most find that there is still tweaking needed for final setup. It has been helpful for me to build heavier arrow recipies in theory before spending $$$$ to try out an idea. It also calculates total arrow grain weight, FOC%, estimated FPS speed, and Kinetic Energy. I like it, some don't and it definitely does not replace range/shooting time to tune your setup. Just "Google" Stu's Calculator and download version 2 and see what you think.

[soy]

Thank you guys for the clarification, I greatly appreciate it  

[Whitehawk23]

So if I'm making a pyramid bow how do you "cut to center" arrow shelf without taking awake the integrity of the limbs (the problem I'm having with my first bow)

[Dimondback]

Most of the bows I build are laminated wood with fiberglass backs and bellies. If it is an all wood bow, you do not have the glass to add additional strength and the other qualities that it provides. I am no expert in this stuff but I wouldn't be too worried about getting your shelf cut-to-center on an all wood bow. You can always set up your arrows to shoot well around the cut-before-center by changing spine, point weight, etc. Like I said, no expert but I believe "Forrest Trekker" on this site has a great build along on a pyramid bows that may answer your question.

[Whitehawk23]

How difficult are those laminate bows?