Need info on vanes and rests....

[Dick in Seattle]

I'm in the process of making a lot of archery changes.   One involves trying out vanes.   So far, vanes seem to fly faster than feathers, which makes sense.  Having had to drop 20# in bow weight, I need all the speed I can get.

Obviously, vanes don't like being shot off of a shelf, though I have a Pronghorn that somehow doesn't seem to mind too much.  My questions ares for those who shoot vanes off of a raised rest on recurves or longbows... not on the fancy metal frame bows.   What kind of rest is necessary for vanes to work?    On a wood risered bow, my inclination is to use the least obtrusive style of rest I can... probably a brush rest, but I'm not sure if that will work OK.   Do vanes require, or at least perform substantiall better with the flipper finger magnetic style rests?

Next, I see lots of talk about special tillering for split and three under.  Obviously, installing a raised rest requires raising the nock point.  Is this a problem re changing the tiller of the bow, or is it really unnoticeable and you just merrily shoot on?

You can see I'm green as grass here... moving into a whole new area, but trying to learn... and, as a monk I used to know once said, "All knowledge is good, Grasshopper."

Dick in Seattle

[dan ferguson]

Dick I bought a Herters takedown in the 70,s and I know alot of bows from that era came out with elevated rests on them. I have set my Herters up both ways. Right now I have a Hoyt flipper rest on it that I have had stashed since the 70,s shoots okay either way, all though it never gets shot anymore since I went to the longbow.

[Dick in Seattle]

Thanks, Dan....   sounds like it probably isn't that big an issue as long as you get the vanes up off the rest.

Reason for the question is that I went and got myself a Trad Tech Titan and I'm setting it up and trying to get used to it.    Have to say that without question it's the best shooting bow I've had... It's gonna teach me quite a bit more about archery and it gives me about 10 exra yards, maybe more, of reasonable range.  For someone shooting as light a weight as I am and with a very short draw, it really is fast.   However, I may have a problem getting used to the weight and the fact that so far, it just doesn't have a spirit... heck of a shooting machine, but doesn't resonate with me.   Hopefully, I'll overcome that, but in case I don't, I'm thinking about getting a really beautiful wood recurve and setting that up for vanes.  I'm not a good shot, but I like my bow to look like I am  :^)

[CJ5]

The Titan offers all kinds of possibilities; a wooden bow with no plunger hole, fewer. With the Titan, you could use a plunger with any of several stick-on flippers, or something like a centerest flipper. On a bow without a plunger hole, a stick on like the Bear weatherest or  Flipper II would work. Another thing that will help when trying to get vanes to clear well would be arrows with tunable nocks.

[DesertDude]

Hey Dick, Any Good stick on Flipper style rest should work for your needs.

[Steve P]

Dick, just a thought. I am not familiar with your new bow, so it may not be applicable(must be shot with elevated rest?). A few days ago I read (shooters forum?)where a fellow had been experimenting shooting with cock feather in. Had been using an elevated rest for vanes, but found he could get good flight from the shelf using vanes with cock facing in. So maybe vanes don't always force you off the shelf.


With dropping poundage, though, there may be advantages. I had an interesting conversation  about a year ago with a guy about elevated rests. He had noticed an increase in yardage (flight shooting) using elevated rest vs shelf. Translates to more speed coming off the bow possibly. Now this information won't put an elevated rest on my longbow. But, with a young son wanting to start shooting arrows at deer, I find this type of information valuable. A couple fps here, some added penetration there(Grizzly bh debates/threads) might make me rethink my poundage requirements for him.


Steve

[Dick in Seattle]

All good inof, guys... thanks.     Although now I'll have to find out what a "tuneable nock" is  :^)

Steve, gettng those extra few fps is where I'm at.   I've always shot Hills... just love them, but they do like heavier wood arrows.   I'm shooting between 35 - 40 pounds now, instead of 50 -60.    I've already found that light carbon arrows with small vanes fly so much faster that they strike almost a foot higher at 30 yards than woods with feathers.   (Part of that is that I'm in the habit of using pretty high feathers).    I shoot somewhere between split vision and instinctive, and that much differnence in the the point on range is really significant.  

I'm also trying goint back to split from three under... again, to move that point on range out.  Putting all of this together is doing some very interesting things... I find I'm trying longer shots and making them, and switching to the lighter weight has pretty much eliminated my shoulder pain, plus, it's helping me a lot with my tendency to fail to reach full draw.  Fortunately, I don't hunt, so light weight isn't an issue there... no wardens on the 3D range...

[CJ5]

Dick......what I meant by "tunable" nock is one that doesn't glue on....but rather inserts into the shaft, like a super nock. That way, you can easily play with different fletch orientations to get the best clearance. I guess "insert" nock would be a better reference, but tunable was all I could think of at the time  :D

[Kingstaken]

In your first posts I just could not understand how vanes shot quicker then feathers. I was scratching my head.
Unless things changed big time from when I was a compound shooter no way are plastic vanes faster then feathers as vanes are heavier.
Now I understand as you wre comparing them to your woods that naturally are heavier, but it was not the feathers were not slowing down your arrow. Why not shoot 3" or 4" feathers. No helical, just a slight 5 degree offset.
Feathers stabilize better then vanes for trad equipment.
Instead of a raised shelf, add a piece of tooth pick under your rest and behind the shelf pads to decrease contact on the riser or rotate the nock as my son did to get good flight from vanes on his carbons.

[Carbon Caster]

Dick,

IF the feathers were put on with a straight clamp as the vanes probably were, you would find them faster at least off the bow.  That is IF they are the same size.  Personally, I would try 3 4" low profile feathers put on with a straight clamp and with a slight offset before I jumped in whole hog for vanes.  Also, you may consider getting the Trad Tech Pinnacle Riser to play with as well. I shoot a DAS riser, and I was pleasantly surprised with how well I like the Pinnacle Riser.  I don't subscribe to anything but Human beings having "souls", but I do like WOOD.  I am probably going to order a Pinnacle myself in the NEAR future for that reason.

[SERGIO VENNERI]

Dick; I've been shooting a Silvertip with an elevated rest for 23 yrs. I use a Brush para rest or a hoyt hunter rest. I shoot aluminum arrows with 4-4 1/2 inch shield cut vanes( cut 5" parabolics to Shields). this set up is simple, waterproof, and absolutely silent.I shy away from the flipper type rest because i personally find then too flimsy for the areas that i hunt ! I pull my bow thru tag alders and thickly forested Bush. I try to keep it simple. hope this helps you.

       Sergio