bowyer business ?

[BrushWolf]

I've  been thinking of selling some bows. What I don't know is what one needs for liability.  Any thoughts or input would be helpful.

[bjansen]

The liability question is a unique one that I am probably not qualified to answer.  

You will need to register for a federal excise tax which is an 11% tax payable by the manufacturer (you) on the sale of each bow.  This requires a registration with the govt., generally a visit by them to your business to finalize the registration and then quarterly filings from then on.  It does not involve a sigificant amount of paperwork upfront, or even continually, but is something to be aware of.

[jsweka]

Look into becoming an LLC (limited liability company).  It's different in every state, but that will protect you from someone taking your house if a bow blows up and injures them.

Your bows are definitely worthy of creating a business around.  Good luck!

[talkingcabbage]

What's it called when you create the company as a completely separate entity, totally independent from you, the owner?  Is that a corporation, or something different?  Anyway, that might be the way to go.  That way, you would have no personal liability -- right?

[shade mt]

It is fairly easy to start a business. I was a building contractor for 20+ years..But having your own business is not all peaches and cream. I now work for a heavy highway company..bridge work ect. Wish i would have done it years ago. That being said a business of selling a few bows a year is certainly  possible. BUT! and it's a big BUT! if you do everything to the letter as far as insurance liability, Gov't requirements ect..you may be in for a rude awakening.I alway's ran my business in accordance to Gov't requirement..filed taxes quarterly, proper insurance, workmans comp ect...trust me.. Our Gov't is very, very good at over regulating and spending your money. As far as starting a Inc. It will require a fee,a lawyer to set it up, plus an established president of the business, trustees ect...LLC is a better option. I also make a few bows a year as a hobby. I can say with total honesty I wouldn't want to start a bow building business.Some people can't understand the high cost of custom bows..Start your own business...It will become very clear.

[shade mt]

Above post isn't meant to discourage..If it's something you really want to do, I'd do it. I would take the proper steps..taxes Insurance ect. But don't go overboard with it, especially if your only selling a few bows. You can alway's up your coverage ect..later. I would be very hesitant to start a small business and give the Gov't and insurance company's free reign to your check book. Sad but true, we live in a law suit happy society. Get yourself covered but don't go overboard.

[Canadabowyer]

I formed a Ltd.(Canadian I don't know the equivalent in the USA) company so any lawsuit can only go after the assets of the company. Cost me $1200 with fees and lawyer. I also buy liability insurance($500 per year). The insurance allows me to voluntary pay anyone $5000 if there is an injury, even if they slip on the stairs going into my shop or similar accident. Any more that that and they would have to sue my company and it really has virtually no assets. All that said I have never had any problem at all and have met and made a lot of good friends through my bowbuilding. Altogether a good experience but not a profitable one.    Bob

[Bowjunkie]

It's a shame it has to be that way. Some of the very best bowyers I know won't sell, or even GIVE, a bow to anyone they don't know and trust.

I myself would like to sell a few. I love making them, think I do an ok job of it, don't need 200 of them in my house    could use the money so that my diversion was self-supporting, BUT I've watched folks string them backwards, over-draw them several inches, etc... I just can't 'afford' to trust folks. The wife and kids like the roof over their heads  

[Al Dean]

I know a lot of bowyers who do not pay excise tax.  One way around a lot is to sell your bows as used, after all you shoot them some before shipping.

[Troy D. Breeding]

Been there, done that. Just about everything that has been stated above.

First off if you don't get the insurance, forget the business. I really never worried that much about the person who bought one of my bows. It was the nextdoor neighbor of the macho brother-in-law that was going to show everyone how strong he was. Idoits are the ones who will get you into trouble.

My arrow business started out fun and almost made me enough $$$ to somewhat live on. Then I tried adding in the bow building. It too started out fun, then the two business together became more than I wanted.

The biggest problem you will have is getting customers to understand you can't fill their order overnight. If your thinking about making totally custom per the customers request make sure you keep records of everything. Even the little things you might not think important when talking to the customer (est. start date, est. finish date, material to use, deposit amount, everything). Then make sure you go back over everything with them.

Afterwards, when it's all done, send a double copy of the paperwork to the customer (one for them and for them to sign one and mail back to you along with the deposit) before you except the order if they aren't present.

Again, make sure you get a signed contract and a deposit before work is started. As the ol' saying goes "in God we trust, all else must pay". Trust me, it prevents being stuck with a bow you really don't need or want without atleast getting alittle offset $$$.

I started out just building and selling what I felt looked good together. I didn't have to worry about hitting any certain weight or hoping the material I used was exactly what the customer wanted. About a year into it I started taking custom orders. That was my biggest mistake. Building and selling with what I had on hand was the easiest. If the customer liked what they saw, they could pay and walk off with bow in hand. If they didn't, all I had to hope for was that the next looker would like it.

You can add alittle extra jingle to the pocket by selling afew bows, but it can also turn into something that takes up all your free time and become the monster in the corner.

Troy

[Bowjunkie]

Excellent advice. Thanks for sharing, Troy.

[BrushWolf]

Thanks for the responses. I have considered the possibility of getting in over my head. I would like to just make a few a year. I like what Troy has said about building what I want and not doing to much custom work. Maybe I need to give it somemore though.

[jsweka]

Originally posted by Troy D. Breeding:

I started out just building and selling what I felt looked good together. I didn't have to worry about hitting any certain weight or hoping the material I used was exactly what the customer wanted.  

That's the only way I would ever consider turning this into a business.  Much less pressure.  Set up a booth at a shoot and simply trade a bow for cash (and resist the requests for custom orders).

[Mike Mecredy]

1- Become a LLC, (employer I.D. number and sale permit usually comes with this.)
2-get your trademark registered,
3- Buy quick books for your computer
4- Liability insurance (Mine's through the craft agency, about $900 a year)
5- Don't forget to pay 11% excise tax on the list price of all bows 30# and up (IRS form 720.)
6- Get a good dust collection system and wear breathing protection.
7- Do the best you can for you customers

[Tron]

Troy and Mike have given the best advice you could ask for

[LittleBen]

I'm no business expert but I second the LLC. Especially with something like this where you could be on the hook for big liability dollars.

LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY .... nuff said. I believe this is basically equivelant to what CanadaBowyer has in Canada.

Might be worth the money to talk to a business advisor or attorney

[coaster500]

Do it Mike....  get famous then I'll have an original early model collectable Tenley  

[BrushWolf]

Originally posted by coaster500:
Do it Mike....  get famous then I'll have an original early model collectable Tenley    

I don't think I have anything to worry about when it comes to being famous. LOL  :D