Basic layout questions.

[Rdog]

I am starting a new build after the last failure and already am second guessing myself.

Looking at different plans I have a question about layout.

Some plans place the handle centered on the center line.  ie. a 5" handle is 2.5" on either side of the center line.

Another plan may show the handle 4" below and 1" above the center line.

And then I wonder why not have the arrow right at the center line?

Is there a "right way" or is this an example of the "art" of bow building, where anyway is correct if done right?

[Roy from Pa]

1" to 1 1/4" above center for the top of the handle " arrow shelf ", then measure down 4" from that line " arrow shelf ", for the bottom of the handle. Some folks may even measure up a little more than 1 1/4" for the shelf..

[macbow]

In the past bowyers laid out the bow and handle with it offset.
The main reason I think was the end result balanced better in the hand when carrying the bow.

The majority of the more modern bowyers find it easier to build bows with the center of the handle being the center of the bow.

That is what I do. I shape my handle area after tillering then cut the arrow pass.
The center of the bow is near the base of my thumb (bottom).

The pass is about 1/4 inch above the hand.
So each bow varies depending on me how I shape the handle.
Most are dished.

[Bowjunkie]

Many bowyers still do lay bows out asymmetrically. I do. It balances the bow in the hand while carrying, pointing, and harmonizes the bow earlier in the draw since the shift from static balance to dynamic balance is minimal, due to the closer relative position of the bow's geographic center, bow hand and string hand fulcrums. This, I beleive, allows for a bow that feels better-balanced to carry and draw, is slightly easier to tune, and more dead in the hand at the shot. Hence my preference.

I've never found a benefit to handle center being placed at bow center.

Flip the bow? I have never once in all the bows I've made had a need to do that. My tiller doesn't shift on me... but then, I pull it on the tree the exact same as I shoot it... not from the center of the handle.

[onemississipp]

Your center line is the place that if you measured your limbs they would be even. Where do you want that? Some don't worry about it. Others will.

[Rdog]

So if a bow is made to be asymmetric, which is another way of saying misproportioned, is there anything lost performance wise?  Should the bottom limb be a longer distance from the true center as to become proportional?

I think I'm over thinking all this, but it is interesting non the less.

[onemississipp]

Depending where you place your arrow pass the bottom limb would be longer, shorten it.

    http://www.bowyersedge.com/organic.html

[onemississipp]

Unless you shoot like this guy. He figured it out!
   

   

[John Scifres]

Read this:   http://bowyersedge.com/organic.html

[John Scifres]

And this:  http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=125;t=000604;p=3

This can get pretty deep so open your mind.  

[onemississipp]

Dang John! You threw him in the deep end!

Build a symmetrical bend through the hadle bow and shoot like Ishi...

We used to shoot like that as children with our ERC limb bows, may have to give it a try again.

[onemississipp]

Ishi, you really need to work on your form! That doesn't look like the clock photo.

[Roy from Pa]

John that second link you provided, I never seen before. I just read it, OMG.. Now I am confused. LOL

But my last few bows have been tillered to a negative tiller:)

[Bowjunkie]

I must have studied and experimented with this stuff for too long because I followed right along with that thread... agreeing and disagrreing some with each of the contributors. I miss DCM.

[Rdog]

Wow, that was some interesting reading, not really sure I understand anything more than when I began.

Although it does back up my gut feeling that the arrow should be at true center.  Its the shortening of the lower limb that gets me.

This last spring is when I got the idea that I could build my own bow and started by following a build a long from youtube.

The plans were a centered handle mollegabet, in the middle of the build I wanted to try doing a burlap backing when I was ready to tiler, but wanted to experiment on a different stick as to not mess up the molly.

So without following plans I started to do up a lighter weight molly hybrid, This was where I started to think for myself and not just follow the online plans...

It seemed that the arrow should be at center, so I placed the handle 4" below the true center, and than gave it a equal length riser above center then equal length limbs. (Thoughts?)  

I never really finished it, and only roughed it out tiller wise, as I was focused on the heavier bow.  It was really a model to see how the backing would work out, although I was hoping it would be a light bow for my wife...I really should start to work it again, (it has a weak spot) but maybe I can fix it?  I think it would become very very light, but good practice for a beginner like me.

Anyway, I found a new board and this handle at center question crept into my mind...I have changed the layout I think 5 times yesterday alone.

I get the feeling I'll be changing it again after all this reading...

[onemississipp]

You need to be on Johns site.

Use these instructions..

   http://sticknstring.webs.com/ferretsboardbow.htm  

It will make sense once you tiller and shoot a couple of your own bows!

[George Tsoukalas]

Plenty of time for you to try new designs. I did. I just keep it simple now. I start with the handle in center and I layout a 3 to 5 in handle depending on the size of the stave. Usually a 4 in handle 2'in on either side of center. More on my site. Jawge

[George Tsoukalas]

http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/

[Roy from Pa]

Lay your bow out from the center line. Make the center line of the bow the center of the 4" handle, then measure up and down from the top and bottom of the handle 2.5 inches, that will be your flares, measure out from the flares to the end of the limb tips for however long a bow you want, you can make them the same " symmetrical" , or " asymmetrical " with lower limb being an inch or so shorter. Up to you. Just have fun, make many, and you will soon learn how you like your bow to be.