New to the forum

[Ice Mike]

Hi guys. Just registered to become a part of your community. I have been browsing for a while And have gleaned alot by just reading here. First let me say that some of you guys build some amazing bows and thank you all for sharing your knowledge so newbies like me can have an avenue to start down the road to becoming a bowyer.

I have built 5 bows so far and all of them have failed except the one shown in the pics. This one is an all wood tri lam (pecan/pecan/walnut) with a sinew backing. This thing gave me fits to get it to this point. I built the form as a reflex/deflex design though it has more deflex than reflex. It was tillered to 50@28 and shot great but developed a crack in the backing near the edge after 20 shots. I then trapped the back past the lifted splinter hoping that would help and I got to 123 shots before a splinter popped up in the middle of the lower limb. I then ordered some elk leg tendons which I processed into sinew and backed it with that. So far it's got 140 shot since the sinew in and is still holding together quite nicely. I went for the Holmegaard style tiller due to the bow having mostly deflex.

It is 64 ntn has a tiger maple handle with a cherry extension. The tip reinforcements are walnut and cocobola.

     
     
   

[Ice Mike]

Oops. I guess I'll have to try to post the pics another way

[jsweka]

Hi Mike - Welcome to Trad Gang and the Bowyer's Bench.

Here's a link on how to post pics.

 http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=129;t=000254

[Ice Mike]

Let's try this.
 

[Ice Mike]

[Ice Mike]

[Ice Mike]

Originally posted by jsweka:
Hi Mike - Welcome to Trad Gang and the Bowyer's Bench.

Here's a link on how to post pics.

  http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=129;t=000254  

Thanks jsweka!

[bornofmud]

Beautiful wood combo!  Not too familiar with that style of tiller, looks to me like it's bending too much off the fades and too little through the mid limb and tips.  Also looks like there is very little thickness taper, might be worth experimenting with that to try and spread the strain a bit more evenly through the limb, sounds like you're pushing the limits of that tiller with that limb shape.  Nice work though!

[Roy from Pa]

I agree. I would be concerned shooting that bow, as all the bend is just outside the fades.

Welcome to the bench..

[Ice Mike]

Thanks for the advice guys. I may try to work mid limb out to the tips a little, but I still want most of the work being done on the inner limb. Bornofmud, the Holmegaard bow is designed to have the inner limbs do all of the work while the outer limbs act as a lever. Kind of like a catapult function. You see this in flight bows alot. I was kind of going for that because the end end result is ZERO hand shock and and a little faster cast per pound.

This is the way I understand it anyway from what I've read.

[Wolftrail]

Welcome Mike.  Nice looking shooter, have built a few R/D designs myself.  I really like the way they pull, so smooth, very smooth release as well.    

[LittleBen]

Welcome Mike!

I think to a certain degree you're right. A stiff lever like limb can be fast and very hand shock free.

In a wood bow though, you have to always balance these factors with durability. I am fairly certain your issues with splintering are a result of too much bending in too small of an area of the limb.

I think you will be suprised to find you can also get a very fast shock free bow, with most of the limb bending and maybe the outer 1/3 kept stiff.

I'd suggest giving this a try on the next one.

Also remember, the less of the limb that is bending, the wider that area of the limb must be.

Lastly, I would also mention that often flight bows do not even last through a single shoot.

When you're talking about shooting a 500gr hunting arrow, a durable long lasting hunting bow with very conventional tiller (i.e. bending through all or most of the limb) will give up only a few FPS compared to a flight bow which is designed to last only a dozen shots.

Again welcome and I hope you enjoy your time on the bench!

Cheers, Ben

[red hill]

Welcome, Mike! What part of Louisiana do you call home?  I'm just above the state line in Arkansas.

Enjoy the forum and the craze!

[Iron Eagle]

Welcome to the gang, the guys here are awsome and give excellent advice. Your wood combination is beautiful.

[Ice Mike]

Thanks for the welcomes guys! I really appreciate it alot!

LittleBen, Thank you for taking the time to explain that because you are absolutely right and I didn't quite think about it like that until you said it. I definitely don't want a short term bow. I will take this thing back to the tiller tree in the morning and see if I can't work it a little. If it shaves off too much weight, I can always give it to the kids and get started in the next one!

[Ice Mike]

Originally posted by red hill:
Welcome, Mike! What part of Louisiana do you call home?  I'm just above the state line in Arkansas.

Enjoy the forum and the craze!

I live in a small town near Kentwood in SE LA. About 45 minutes NNE of Hammond.

[Ice Mike]

Well this is the best I can get it guys.

I have worked the mid limb until now I'm starting to eat all the way through the belly wood in spot and I'm a little skittish to keep going. Here is the full draw pic where it's at now.
 Do you think it will be safe to keep shooting?

[LittleBen]

definately got it bending a bit more, but honestly theres a long way to go still to what I would call an evenly tillered bow.

I think it will "survive" because sinew is just so tough, it's not likely to let go. I do think however, that it is likely that the belly will start showing compression fractures in that most bending area,a nd the bow will progressively lose draw weight.

You said it is pecan/pecan/walnut? is that american black walnut or brazilian walnut (ipe)?

if it's black walnut then the pecan is actually much stronger and theres no need to fear scraping through the walnut if you need to to tiller the bow.

If you choose to keep tillering and work your way through that walnut, you can always add another thin lamination onto the belly side after you get the bow well tillered if you need to bring the draw weight back up.

On the other hand, sometimes it's best to let a bow stay as is, take the lessons learned, and apply them to the next bow.

One thing you can do to prevent having to scrape all the belly wood away in the future is to use a core lamination which is tapered. That way the limbs already have a little thickness taper built in.

[Ice Mike]

Thank you for your help Ben!

It is American walnut. This is the first tri lam bow I've done and, even though it's a little tough to tell from the pics, the pecan backing lam and the core lam are both tapered. The backing from 1/8 @ the fades to 1/16 at the tips, and the core from 3/8 @ the fades to 1/4 @ the tips. I was going for 5/8 total @ fades to 3/8 total @ tips. The bow is 1.5 wide at the handle and start to taper at mid limb to 1/2 @ tips. I was originally shooting for 50 lbs which came in perfect until I had to trap the back past a splinter which dropped it to 42.

I went ahead and finished shooting this one in yesterday and let me niece have it as she has a new found interest in archery since staying with us a couple weeks ago. I also built a lam jig for my belt sander and cranked out some identical lams to start another immediately. What can I say? It's an addictiin!! Lol

I will definitely be doing this one a little different based on the advise that you guys have given me. Can't wait to post some pics of the next one soon. Maybe I'll do it as a build along thread so you guys can maybe help me spot any devils in the back yard as I'm going!