Paints for arrow crowning and cresting

[kiltedcelt]

So, I want to get away from dip tubes and I really like the 3Rivers Eco-dipper which if you haven't seen it, is this little gizmo with a gasket that attaches to your lacquer can or pint can of crowning paint. They recommend using it with only the 3Rivers paint and their Fletch-lac. Has anyone tried using it with other brands of lacquer or acrylic enamels? I really want to get into making custom arrows and that means having the ability to use a bunch of different paints. Ideally I'd like to use something a little cheaper and more available like model paints, but I'm wondering how durable they are. You can certainly buy most model paints way cheaper than the same size bottles of "cresting paint." If the best option is still sticking strictly with the paints like the Whispering Winds stuff, I'll go with those, but hey can't fault a guy for wanting to try to save a buck.

[Drewster]

I spray all my caps with Rustoleum.  Other brands have been reported to work well too, especially the enamels.  I also use Testors enamel model paints for all my cresting and they work great.  Sometimes you have to thin them a bit.  A top coat or two of finish will help protect your cap and crest.

[Pat B]

These arrows were crowned with Krylon spray paint, created with Testors craft paint and dipped in water based poly. They are cedars with rawhide reinforced self nocks.
When I started making arrows I got tired of smelling all the solvent paints and finishes so I started using regular household type paints and finishes, water based when I could.
 I made these quite a few years ago and still have 3 or 4 that I shoot with certain bows.
 

 

[ColonelSandersLite]

This post will be a fairly long info dump, mostly taken from my own notes on all things arrow finish.

I haven't been doing archery for very long (just since fall) and I've only made a dozen arrows.  With that in mind, my first dozen arrows I wanted to experiment with a variety of options. I tried 3 different finishes each applied in 2 different ways and crested them with a system to let me know what was what for long term tracking purposes.  I also tried 3 different methods of affixing the fletches and two different cresting paints.  I shoot at a public outdoor range at fiberboard targets.  After rain, the fiberboard holds moisture and bits of it like to adhere to the arrows depending on finish.


I don't have pictures at this moment, but I'll add some a little later.


All arrows:
port orford cedar.
Dyed cherry red with common rit dye (the red ones go faster)
All finishes where applied with a wipe on method.
I attempted each finish before cresting and after cresting.
The cresting was done with masking tape (I'll make a cresting jig for next time)

Watco Teak Oil:
During the finishing stages, the teak oil finish removes a lot of the dye and leeches the dye through the cresting after it has been applied.  Some of the dye seems to have worn off/leached out as well, while no such effect has been observed with the other finishes.  With the arrows where finish was applied before cresting, paint adhesion problems where notable when removing the masking tape.  The sole area that the teak oil behaves in a superior manner to date seems to be in regards to the fiber particles adhering to the finish.   The few particles that have adhered could be easily removed.  Overall the teak oil finish seems to be substandard for the application. I do not recommend this finish.

Minwax Polycrylic:
Initially seemed to be a good finish, no peeling of the crest observed, does not come off with tape etc.  When the fiberboard is damp, this finish seems to have bond with the loose fiber particles, requiring scrubbing with steel wool to remove them.  The particles have further left black stains where they where and the scrubbing results in moderate chipping.  After a half dozen two hour or so shooting sessions light chipping of the finish was observed near the points.  After 15-20 or so shooting sessions, the chipping is more severe, and can be seen along the whole length of the shaft.  I suspect that this finish is just too brittle to take the flexing.  I can't recommend this finish either.

Deft Satin Brushing Lacquer:
Initially seems to be a good finish.  *Very Slight* pealing of the crest when removing the masking tape.  When the fiberboard is damp a few bits of loose particles adhere to it, but to a much lesser degree than the polycrylic.  Light scraping with a fingernail is all that is required to remove the few particles that stuck.  Very faint dark spots where left where the particles did manage to adhere to the lacquer.  After shooting the arrows a couple times where the fiberboard was dry, the dark spots completely went away.  The finish on these arrows still looks really good after 15-20 or so shooting sessions with no observable chipping or damage, except where I've obviously smacked one arrow with another.  I can recommend this finish.  Unless someone recommends what they think is a better finish, my next set of arrows will all be lacquered.


Cresting:
All arrows where crested with 3 paints.  Method was masking tape + paint brush.
Apple Barrel Acrylic Black and White, which I'm most definitely not happy with.  This paint has issues with being too tacky after curing.  The black applied well, but the white took numerous coats to get a good white base.  

Anitas All Purpose Acrylic Red, and I'm undecided about this paint.  It wasn't tacky at all after curing, but took many coats to get a good solid red.  On the flip side, this is a common problem with red acrylic paints so that may not be a fair basis to judge on.

The next batch of arrows I will try cresting some with Anitas, some with Testors, and maybe some with something else that somebody swears by in this thread.

I can't give much detail here, but my father, after seeing my cresting, decided to try Krylon spray paint in white and blue.  After a few sessions, that seemed to be holding up OK.  I'm not going to attempt it though, since masking for cresting is a huge pain in the ass.  I'm reasonably sure I can make a cresting jig that will give better results and still cost me less time to make than it will to mask another dozen arrows.


Fletching Adhesion:
All arrows are fletched in a medieval style with the binding winding trough the fletches themselves.

On the first few, I first adhered the fletches with loctite super glue gel.  I then noticed that when allowed to air dry, the glue was leaving a nasty white residue on the finish around it.  I broke out some accelerent and sprayed the arrows that hadn't fully cured yet and they did not have this issue.  From here, I moved to an off-brand liquid superglue and used accelerent, the final result was much better.

I also got to thinking, on the medieval arrows, the glues must have been seen as unreliable or people wouldn't go to this length to tie them on like this. So, as an experiment, I also put some of the fletches on with no glue at all on a couple arrows, just relying on the medieval whipping to keep them on there and after more then a dozen 2 hour shooting sessions, this showed no sign coming loose.

Initially, I did the binding with brownels serving thread.  This thread was just too thick and is causing problems with the feathers.  As an experiment, I unbound the arrows that weren't glued, and redid them with Coats Extra Strong Upholstery Thread.  It's tough stuff and thin enough that the problems I experienced earlier where mitigated.  It's only been two shooting sessions since I did this, but so far I'm completely happy with this thread.  I will have to look to the more long term to give a final opinion on it though.  I may also stop using glue altogether with the medieval fletches.  If the thread holds them on that well, I'm not sure I see the point of using the glue, and not using the glue will make replacing damaged fletches super easy.

[ColonelSandersLite]

Ok, so here's the only photo I have that's turned out even halfway decent so far.  I'll have to try to get some detail pictures of finishes out in the sunlight tomorrow where my crappy el cheapo camera actually works ok.


Below is a comparison between one of the first few arrows I fletched (the crappy one) vs the one I recently refletched.  Note the white residue from the super glue gel.  Also note how the thicker thread damages the feathers.  The top arrow was refletched with the same feathers that I took off of it, so there is some leftover permanent damage, but even so, it's much better.  It's also noteworthy the way that the top black ring on the applebarrel black is wearing off and if you look closely, you can see that the white is getting pretty dirty due to its tackiness.
   

I doubt very many people are willing to put their worst work out there for everybody to see like this, but that's how I roll I guess.  I just hope that somebody out there will learn from my experiences, so they don't have to learn this stuff themselves the hard way.

[kiltedcelt]

Thanks for all the input guys. I think I'll experiment with some Rustoleum along with model paints. Luckily, these days you can buy Rustoleum in a can for brush painting so I think I can probably duplicate almost any cresting color I'd want with the base colors they have available. If the consistency is what I think it is it will probably work with that Eco-dipper, so I may give that a try after all. However, I do have some extra dip tube gaskets and I could probably whip up my own Eco-dipper to experiment on. To begin with though, I'll probably keep it simple and cap dip with some pvc tubes and Rustoleum, the follow that up with some time on the cresting lathe and finish it out with a hand rubbed finish of some sort of polycrylic or some such. I'll be sure to share what I learn.

[ColonelSandersLite]

Wait till you see the polycrylic chipping pictures.  Trust me, you won't like what you see there.  I wanted to get them today, but it was such a nice day I just had to go to the range instead   .

[kiltedcelt]

Oh yeah, forgot about that. Well, there are plenty of other finishes that would be more durablemthat I can try. I wonder if anyone has ever just tried using Tru-Oil on arrows?

[Pat B]

I use Tru-Oil a lot now. I've used it on cedars, poplars, sourwood shoot arrows and cane arrows.

[ColonelSandersLite]

Ok, here we go.  In both photos, from top to bottom, the finishes are teak oil, lacquer, polycrylic, and another polycrylic.

Tips:
   

Central Portion:
   

(Click to view larger versions)

Notes:
The top 3 arrows show the top of each arrow, and the bottom arrow shows the bottom of the arrow.  I shoot off the knuckle, so none of the damage seen is caused by the arrow grinding against the bow or shelf.  Some of the damage may be caused by arrows impacting other arrows though.

It's easy to see on the top arrow where the white cresting has turned pink due to the teak oil leaching the dye through the crest.  It's not as apparent as in real life, but the photo does also show how the oil has pulled out a lot of the dye leaving it lusterless.  I do admit though, that if you're not staining or dying your arrows, this is a non-issue.

The chipping on the polycrylic is so severe that it's doing very little to protect the arrow from moisture.

The brown stuff on the tips of polycrylic arrows is where the polycrylic pulls out a bit of the fiberboard when it is damp.  The dark stains are where the fiberboard stained the polycrylic.

Aside from impact damage, the lacquered shafts still look like they did the day I made them.


In these photos, I think it's pretty easy to see the myriad problems caused by the applebarrel brand white and black as well.

[ColonelSandersLite]

Got to looking at those pics, and wasn't too happy with the detail/size so here's a higher detail of the mid shaft portions of the lacquer (top) and 2 polycrylic arrows.  Notes from above apply.

 
Click to see even larger version, then click the plus symbol on the image to see the full size.

[kiltedcelt]

Hey thanks for posting the photos. I think I finished some arrows once with something like a Minwax polyurethane and I remember they seemed to pick up a ton of burning from being shot into foam targets. Of course you can supposedly negate target burn on the arrows by spraying them with Armor-all or silicone spray, or so I've read, never tried it. I think I'm gonna experiment around a bit. I can always take some spare dowels and try multiple stains, and finishes to see what works best before going to the permanent application. Of course how something holds up over time is the real kicker. Your polycrylic arrows show that.

[ColonelSandersLite]

No problem man.  The dowels sounds like a good idea.  I wish I had thought of it before putting the teak oil on my actual arrows.  As you say though, long term is a different scenario from short term.  If you decide to try a few other finishes out and track their reliability long term, I would be very interested to see the results when you get there.

Something I didn't mention is that every arrow in the whole set has been loosed pretty dang close to the same number of times as every other arrow.  I tend to shoot through the whole quiver when I'm at the firing line.  So there's probably a *bit* of variation there, but not a very significant amount.

Though I haven't had a need to do so on these arrows yet, lacquer is also easy to repair.  This is because lacquer redissolves when lacquer thinner or more lacquer is put on, which is another point in favor of my recommending it for arrows.