Hickory bow set?

[tnhighlander]

Hey guys, I am new to the forum.  I have been really getting into traditional and primitive archery for about 2 years.  I have been reading this forum for awhile and there is so much knowledge here, I wanted some expert advice.  I have started building hickory flat bows from some staves I cut on my farm.  My first attempt, I violated the outer ring of the bow and it splintered on the final tillering.  My second attempt has gone really well, bow looks great and I am almost done with it.  66 inches long, about 50 pounds at 27 inches.  My problem is it seems to be taking more set every time I tiller it and check the draw weight.  Right now it is right at 3 inches of set, last time it was at about 2 1/2 inches.  Have I done something wrong or is there a way to fix this?  Would heat treating make it better.  Like I said I am really new to this, but I am really enjoying every aspect of this, it is so addictive.  Thanks for any advice.

[Mad Max]

Stop working on it.
Bring it in the house with A/C
Weight it in grams if you can.
Keep a log on the weight.
when it stops losing weight you can work on it, bringing it back in the house while you are not working on it.
I have not heat treated Hickory but I sure you can and put some reflex in it at the same time

good luck

Someone else will chime in for more Info

Don't get in a Hurry

[tnhighlander]

Thank you.  Great idea.

[KellyG]

How long has it seasoned. Hickory does respond to heat fairly well but I have only made 2 hickory bows but am working on my 3rd and helping with a 4th.

also post pics of your bow at rest, strung and pulled back on the tree or stick.

folks here might see something in the tiller you dont sess. Trust me on that one.

[LittleBen]

Sounds like it's not dry enough to me. Or the tillering is off. Or the design is not appropriate for the wood (draw weight too high, too narrow, too short etc.)

[Osagetree]

To me hickory is tough to tiller. For that matter any white wood is for me.
The guys could be on to something with the wet wood theory and no harm in trying any suggestions provided or that youve suggested here but,,,,,, if tiller is good with 3" set for a second bow ever,,,, you won Sir!    

One thing that took me some time to learn was to prevent as much set as possible, the bow should not be drawn past your desired/intended draw weight during the tillering process. Or, set will probably occur.

[tnhighlander]

Thanks for the great input.  The staves have seasoned for almost a year, but they have been stacked under a covered carport by my barn if that makes any difference.  I will post some pics as soon as I figure out how.  I am new to the forum thing and not real technologically advanced.  I was really careful not to pull it past desired weight or draw length.  Last tiller looked pretty good, a little stiff in the outer half of both limbs, but not much. I will post pictures soon and hopefully that will shed more light on the issue. I really want this one to make it. Thanks guys.

[Mad Max]

A week inside will show if it has moisture

[Dustin Gilstrap]

I had the same problem.  It wasnt the moisture.  I was over stressing the wood during the tiller.  I have made 3 since with the same wood.  No problems...thanks to the great advice I received from these great people.

This is just what I experience in my beginner trials....

[John Scifres]

How wide is your bow?

Wood can still be very wet after a year, especially hickory stored outdoors and left as logs or thick staves with the bark on.

[tnhighlander]

The limbs are 1 1/2 inches wide out to 6 inches from the tip then it tapers down to 1/2 inch.  The staves are pretty thick, I could easily get two bows out of each one.  They still have the bark on them.  If the stave was still wet, can I dry the bow out and be o.k.?

[tnhighlander]

And I agree with you Dustin, I appreciate the suggestions and already have learned quite a bit from the the guys on this forum.

[Mad Max]

Just make sure it's dry, Heat treat some reflex in it and see what you get.

Been there and done that.

[mikkekeswick]

Cut off a small chunk.
Weigh it accurately on some grain scales.
Put it in your oven for a few hours, low heat, door ajar.
Weigh it again after a few hours.
Divide weight lost by initial weight.
= Moisture content with no guess work.
Hickory should be below 9% before you bend it very far.
Also virtually all whitewoods are stronger in tension than they are in compression. Hickory is massively strong in tension and should have either a high crown (sapling stave) or have the back back trapped heavily. Like 40 % of the total width heavily.
Follow all these things and you should get 1/2 - 3/4 inch set.
Good luck.  

[mikkekeswick]

Once you have got a lot of set there really isn't any point in heating reflex in - the belly cells are already past it.
Reflex should be heat treated in before any set shows up.

[Todd Cook]

Yep, you're probably stuck with the set on that one. I've never had much luck trying to undo the damage. But a little set dosent hurt a thing.

I use hickory quite a bit. I have access to plenty of it and it makes a good bow. Truthfully, hickory can make a GREAT bow if you keep it dry.As in 6-8% mc dry. Hickory at 12% is a dog; at 7% it's a totally different animal.

I live one state south of you, and I can tell you hickory won't get dry enough outside. Or at least it hasn't for me. Our RH stays too high. It can get close outside but you should bring the roughed out bow indoors for a month or put it in a hotbox. If it's too wet it will take set regardless of the tiller.

[tnhighlander]

Thanks guys.  In researching this more, I think I have made several mistakes that have created this.  First, I believe the wood was to wet, so I will rough out several staves and store them in my workshop to get them good and dry.  Second, I think I took it to the tiller stick to soon, even though I was careful to not pull it past draw weight or length, in my initial pulls, short pulls not even to brace height, the bow was too heavy (I did not floor tiller first) and third when I was initially tillering bow the belly had taken a D shape to it but I eventually tillered it flat.  I left it in the house and not worked on it for several days, then took it back out and worked on it some more.  The set seems to be holding at 2 3/4 on top and 3 1/4 on bottom.  I do not plan on doing any thing else to this one except sealing it, I think it will make and be a decent bow for my second attempt and will serve as a reminder for the next several attempts. For my next attempt I am going to look into heating in some reflex first. This is quickly becoming an obsession.  I am looking forwards to all the new bows to come and the endless possibilities.  I promise I will post pictures and let you know how it shoots.  I have gained a wealth of knowledge from you guys.  Thanks again.  Keep it coming, I'm soaking it up.

[tnhighlander]

Todd, thanks for your info.  It is so humid here as well.  I want to keep using hickory due to an abundant supply here on my property but I would like to use some other woods like maple and oak. I have several maples and oaks down from storm damage.  Most of the work I do on the bow is outside, could the bow soak up enough moisture from humidity in a couple of hours to make a noticeable difference.

[Brock]

yep look at some info in Trad Bowyers Bible or even the online stuff from Murray Gaskins...

 http://www.zetatalk3.com/docs/Group_Defense/Bow-arrows/Alternative_Bow_Woods_2004.pdf

hickory is hydroscopic so it absorbs and holds moisture from air easily...so when you start tillering you need to have a warming box that you can check for moisture content (meter) or do a calculation using relative humidity and temperature (fairly accurate)....  only flex limbs when wood is in proper zone for moisture content....and then when done return it to warming box until next time....when done you will need to seal it really good to lock out as much moisture as possible.  I have two hickory staves now...one mostly done and one unstarted.    I keep mine in the house and even then the humidity here in south carolina stays around 40% at 74* with air conditioner so need to take all of that into account.

 https://books.google.com/books?id=dQT9krc53isC&pg=PA23&lpg=PA23&dq=relative+humidity+for+bowyer&source=bl&ots=zh_2zF8dH5&sig=c2KXRDEblYKVohfE61CHIlKf3IU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAGo VChMIyIPOveHFxwIVDBs-Ch0uBwaf#v=onepage&q=relative%20humidity%20for%20bowyer&f=false

here is the chart...but buy the book.  
 https://books.google.com/books?id=dQT9krc53isC&pg=PA30&lpg=PA30&dq=relative+humidity+chart+for+bowyer&source=bl&ots=zh_2zF8eDY&sig=Flk5B_AKannTUns8mN5gGfHsi2w&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CDwQ6 AEwCGoVChMI2OGM1uHFxwIVBHQ-Ch11agsE#v=onepage&q=relative%20humidity%20chart%20for%20bowyer&f=false