R/D laminations and reflex dimensions

[Gavin_benton]

I am new to building bows but I would like to take on building a reflex/deflex longbow. I have no idea how to figure out what thickness of laminations to go with, number of laminations to reach the desired draw weight and also how to determine how much reflex I should/can add into the limbs and where to start the reflex to produce the highest quality performance I can. I am looking to build a 64ish" bow that pulls 48# at 28".

[kennym]

Hi Gavin,
This may help, and I have since modified the 64" by adding an inch more reflex. Lowered stack and upped performance, but the first one I built I got talked out of, so not sure yet if it behaves as well as original.

 http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=125;t=011684#000010

Have another one nearing completion and will post the build along on my site and maybe on here. (If Roy still wants to learn how to build a rea... err glass bow)   :D

[fujimo]

gavin, i did ask on your fb post- but need to figure out if you want to build an all wood laminate bow- or a glass and wood laminate bow.
tons of good folk on here to help with both- and none of the fb warrior stuff!!   :D    :D  
kenny supplies lams and forms etc etc-
and some folk build more wood only bows- and many of us build both.
with glass bows- its probably best to go with a recognized design, and stack height( The recipe!!) then you can be assured of better success-
remember glass bows take a bit more investment to build, in the way of tools, and forms etc.
wooden bows take less tools, but a bit more of an understanding of tiller and how to get there.

but you wont be led astray here

[Gavin_benton]

Awesome thankyou Kenny! Now another question is how can a guy determine how much weight you are adding with the different thicknesses of laminations

[Gavin_benton]

Okay fujimo I was thinking along the lines of an all wood bow with something hardrock maple core with bocote veneers but I am open to suggestions and I really appreciate the lack of Facebook warriors cause that just makes it hard to learn anything

[kennym]

The stacks ( lam and glass thickness) are in the plans for those and just shoot me an email if I can help you with anything else.

[BMorv]

Gavin, If you are interested in all wood laminations check out some of Roy's builds:
 http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=125;t=013158;p=1

 http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=125;t=012149;p=1#000000

 http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=125;t=010376;p=2

He's knows his tri lams.  

I haven't seen many people use veneers on all wood bows.

[Gavin_benton]

BMorv thank you. I guess I don't really know the benefits of glass over wood and vise versa so I will have to do some researching on it and make an educated guess from there. Can a guy add reflex to the limbs the way roy did in the pics vs building a whole jig system or is that a wood based bow jig only? I have been watching alot of clay hayes and he makes a cool jig but it just reflexes the tips

[Gavin_benton]

Okay so here's a question too. When making a glass bow what is the lamination layer order? Glass, wood core,tapered wood, Glass?
Then on a wood bow would you put action wood, wood core, and another action wood?(bamboo, walnut, bamboo)

[styksnstryngs]

Action wood is not a substitute for fiberglass, it's usually used for core wood for fiberglass bows. Bamboo is not actionwood, although there is actionboo, laminated bamboo. Bamboo (not the laminated stuff, the stuff from a culm with nodes and all) can be used for backing, but using it for a belly lam is a tough thing to do and not recommended for anyone with less than a few dozen bows under their belt. A better belly lam would be ipe or other very dense wood. The process for building a glass bow and a trilam can be very different, and clay Hayes is making selfbows, not laminated bows. I assume you've shot trad bows for a while? You've probably been shooting a glass bow- wood bows are more fragile, worse performance(unless you're a very good bowyer, and even then you're limited by material) and easier to make, imo. If it's your first, I'd get some practice under my belt with some board bows, and then maybe graduate to glass or trilams.

[styksnstryngs]

Damn, I'm supposed to be writing an essay for school...

[Gavin_benton]

So I've decided for my first I'm gonna get a floor tillered hickory stave. Could I use a fancy wood like bocote or cocabola as a backing to also make it look really good?

[BMorv]

Good choice on the hickory stave to start with.  You'll learn a lot on this 1st build and you can expand from there.
As far as backing hickory with an exotic wood, I don't think that's a good idea.  Hickory is one of most preferred backings because of it's excellent tension properties.  You wouldn't want to cover that with an expensive exotic backing that's not as good in tension.  You can use those exotics for handle risers.

[Gavin_benton]

I worded it wrong... So I had planned on backing it with bo tuff or stabilkore and then using an exotic as a veneer. Is that okay to do? Sorry for the confusion

[BMorv]

Oh.....I don't think that's a good idea either to mix fiberglass with a stave, but this is where I'm going to back out.  I'm not a glass guy.

[Gavin_benton]

So if you were to get a hickory stave what would you back it with?

[BMorv]

Nothing.  If you get a hickory stave or board with fairly straight grain you don't need to back it.  Hickory is an awesome backing!

[BMorv]

I guess you have to ask yourself a few questions to determine where to start.  
-what's your budget
-what do you want to do with the bow; hunt or target shoot
-would you rather a fiberglass or all wood bow.

An all wood board bow is a good place for beginners to start because of the low upfront cost and they can be made with minimal tools.
But from your comments it seems that your are more interested in fiberglass bows. You have a lot more freedom with fiberglass bows to add things like veneers and exotic risers. I would start with plans from someone like Kenny, who has a proven design with step by step instructions on how to build the bow.  You can customize a few things that fit your taste.  The only drawback is that you'll have a larger investment to get started.

[kennym]

Originally posted by Gavin_benton:
I worded it wrong... So I had planned on backing it with bo tuff or stabilkore and then using an exotic as a veneer. Is that okay to do? Sorry for the confusion

I think a few have tried this and the glass overpowers the wood without belly glass. Going off memory, maybe someone who has done it will speak up .

[kennym]

Oh, and you will want the veneer under glass IMO.