Tillering, + vs -

[Roy from Pa]

Yupper, Chris. Wood bows are a totally different animal.

[BMorv]

I have read through many of Bowjunkie's post because his method has made the most sense to me, and my bows shoot great right off the tree now.  
I try and replicate my draw onto my tree.  I draw my bow and focus on where the pressure is on my bow hand with my grip.  For me, that pressure point is somewhere in the middle of my pointer finger.   I make that my pivot point on the tree cradle, and I like that to be close to the geographical center of the bow.  Then I draw my bow again and focus just on my string hand.  Where am I feeling pressure?  Is is just my middle finger or all three fingers?  I feel pressure mostly in my middle finger so I pull with a hook and set the hook exactly where it will be on my bow, a little less than 3/8" higher than the bow hand pivot point.  If you notice pressure on all 3 fingers a leather strap the width of your fingers would be a good representation.  Now that you have it setup the way you draw, draw a perpendicular line from your cradle in the exact line that you will be pulling from.  Now just tiller your bow and make sure the hook totes that line and your bow is in balance for the way YOU shoot.  If you are building a bow for someone else then have then tell you where they feel pressure on their bow and string hands.  The tiller comes out + or - but it doesn't matter.

[BMorv]

And I forgot to mention that this method is easier than other methods I have tried.  All you  have to do is make sure the hook is toting the line.  If it sways one way, then that limb is too strong.  Not much thinking involved.

[skeaterbait]

What about production bows? Those who make large quantities of the same bow (Bear, Martin, Black Widow, etc.). Does anyone know how they do it since there is no way to know what style the archer will be. In fact, it would stand to reason that all styles will be used on that same model.

[BMorv]

I don't make glass bows, but it would seem that those production bows are much more predictable, and they know that let's say a 1/8" tiller works best for balance and the majority of shooters in the style of bow they make.

[Roy from Pa]

Guys who buy production bows have to tune their bows by moving the nocking point on the string up or down till they get good arrow flight.

"Some" of us wood guys have a predetermined nocking point in mind before we even start tillering the bow and that is where we adjust the trees pull rope for and tiller for equal limb sync/balance.

[skeaterbait]

Originally posted by Roy from Pa:

"Some" of us wood guys....

Don't worry Roy, if you behave someday you can be a real boy.

[Roy from Pa]

Ah tanks..  

[Mark R]

Many variables, I wounder about the Yumi bow, how is it tiller'd ?

[John Malone]

Originally posted by skeaterbait:
 

Originally posted by Roy from Pa:

"Some" of us wood guys....

Don't worry Roy, if you behave someday you can be a real boy. [/b]

LMAO, good one skeater.

[BMorv]

Making one limb shorter than the other doesn't affect the method Roy and I speak of.  The string still should ride the line that you are pulling on.  I've made bows with 2" shorter bottom limbs and they come out with negative tillers but are balanced.

[Roy from Pa]

This is a bow being tillered for 3 under shooting. The trees pull rope hooks on the bow string where the center of the middle finger will be when shooting the bow. Note the pull rope travels right down the black line on the wall. That bows limbs are bending exactly the same in sync. The bow doesn't move in the cradle as it's pulled. The tiller will be whatever the tiller is. Usually even or a little negative. Makes a very quiet, smooth and accurate shooting bow.

 

[Bowjunkie]

BMorv, you got er down my friend. That's how inherently tuned and sweet shooting bows are made... perfectly behaved from the very first arrow, nocked exactly where planned from the beginning. Now that you know what a well designed and well balanced bow feels like, you're more confident in the flight and feel of that first shot, aye?

By the way fellas, I judge the tiller of all of my bows the same way.... self, backed, glass bows, etc.

I think pro bowyers, and most others, tiller their bows 'generically', with an ambiguous positive tiller, not because it's optimal, or right, but first of all, because it's easier for them. Additionally, they're playing it safe, knowing the archer can raise the nock point to 'tune' the bow.(I prefer to call it attempting to mask the imbalance they created). They play it safe with a positive tiller, because if the bottom limb was too weak, relatively speaking, the nock point couldn't be LOWERED below square to achieve good arrow flight since the arrow would come out low and hit the shelf.

So, if they're not willing or able to achieve dynamic balance relative to the archer's fulcrums, it's best for them to set the tiller slightly positive and let the archer try to make it work.

[BMorv]

Yep Bowjunkie, the bows tillered this way are dead in the hand, almost no vibration, and I really don't need a wrist guard when shooting them.  It makes a big difference.  Thanks for your explanations over the years on here for me to dig up and learn from    :D  
I laugh internally when I see someone post something like "you need a 1/4" positive tiller", not because I think they're wrong, but I'm thinking 'boy, if Bowjunkie reads this post you got some explaining to do'....

[Wolftrail]

Thanks for the Video Roy,  Dont think I ever saw it done that way learn something every day.

[Bowjunkie]

Lol. It's not like I'm on a crusade or anything. Well, not anymore. Roy broke me.