Sharpening challanged

[tippit]

Joey, I have a different idea for you...notice I didn't say better     I do disagree with shooting a soft tempered edge as it will surely turn over with hits into bone etc.  Some WW do have one edge that is much harder than the other two...therefor being difficult to sharpen on a file.

If you want to soften the temper put the head in an oven for an hour.  I'd start between 375-400 degrees.  The steel will come out a dark bronze color to blue.  That way you can selectively soften without losing edge quality.  

I sharpen my WW with my Knife Grinder always keeping the edge cooled.  Granted not a good option to most...but the edge comes out as sharp as you could possible get it and still will hold the sharpness thru bone...Doc

[joebuck]

Tippit , like I said before. I have never had an edge roll over by torch heating the edge. I encourage everyone that is having trouble sharpening the heads to try my torch method. furthermore edgerollover is caused more by design ( concave, V angle) than temper. again i can not prove on paper just dead animals.

[Dr. Ed Ashby]

Joey, that MAY happen. I'll know more in a couple of months. There's a single-bevel in the works that is SUPPOSED to be of the same steel, treated the same. It's also SUPPOSED to come "surgically sharp, like the Silver Flame".

Ed
TGMM Family of the Bow

[joebuck]

Good luck Doc, it would be awesome to see the bar raised on a head of that quality. Surgically sharp that you can touch up by simply stropping on leather and compound......utopia!...make it 1.5" wide for us wideheads!

[Dr. Ed Ashby]

... and 4.5" long?    

Ed
TGMM Family of the Bow

[joebuck]

Ole Howard would be proud!!

[joebuck]

hey Doc..heres your features and benefits for the "Mac Truck head" ( Austrian for Broadhead)

FOC magnum.......flys like a competiton dart
3 to 1...........unmatched penetration
1.5" wide........entrance or exit wounds never close
Single bevel......if you have to hit bone, it will bust through
9"of cuttingedge......massive hemoraging
250 grains...........no added weight tubes or etc.


 

[bayoulongbowman]

I think you would change the rockwell hardness and strength when you heat it... :)but if it works it works...

[JC]

Pat, contact Joey and he'll give you all the details. Basically, his torch method, a snuffer tamer and some special 60,000 grit polishing compound. Sounds too simple to be true, but it works. I don't know much, but I do know the 160 snuffer Joey sent to me was one of the sharpest pieces of steel I've had in my hands. I don't just mean sharp, I mean second only to the SF's out of the package imho. And you gots to remember this guy's taken the superslam of turkeys with a stickbow and has a stack of big hog kill pics that would throw you back out moving em. He's put these heads to the test a few times. Don't know how mine will hold up at that temperature/temper etc. but hopefully we'll see how it does on a hog in the next few months.

Tippit, I'll try it in the oven too and see if I can tell a difference in durability.  I assume your knife grinder is putting a hollow ground edge on? Can you tell me the process you are using...I'd like to use my paperwheel on 3 blades too but don't think I could do it carefully and still maintain a consistent angle. With 2 blades at a time near the wheel, I'd be worried the near blade would catch and end up cutting my finger(s) off    

[joebuck]

JC is too kind with compliments and I'm sure there are plenty with equal or more experience than me on here with sharpening Fixed 3 blades like snuffers and/or WW. My advice is try every method. Pick the one that suits you. If you are concerned that my advice on heating the edge would weaken the edge hardness then experiment yourself like I have. Lets face it, this type of fixed 3 blade design is not on the top of the list as a bone busting-penetrating head through heavy bone like a 2 blade. But a rib shot through and through, it's awesome and the edges have never rolled for me. On a rockwell scale how hard is fresh green rib bone? What hardness degree does an edge start to roll on bone? was the edge hollow ground, convex, or concave? 19degrees or 24 degrees....I don't know these answers either    But i do Know my heated heads sharpen on a Snuffer tamer angle file and leather stropped will not roll shot through whitetails and knarely hogs. PM me and I would be glad to help any

[Bowferd]

Just recalling from oldshool, but, if the blade was manufactured correctly in the first place, Why would you not be able to finish off the sharpening process by following the original taper with a few strokes on the stone?
Way too much overdo ends up with an underdo.

[joebuck]

Bowferd... you bring up an excellent point. I change the angle of the shoulders on my Snuffers/WW out of the packet to add slight more angle for thinner edge since I single cut FILE sharpen it. Probably taking it from 28 degrees to 20 degrees. This thinner edge will produce a BETTER burr to flip back and forth.

[tippit]

Hey Joey, Can you bring one of those to the PBS banquet?  I'd like to see it and meet you...tippit

[tippit]

JC, KMG grinder puts a perfect flat edge on WW but certainly is an expensive way to do it...if I weren't already making knives!  I have found that a lot of WW do have one edge harder and not flat, so it used to be difficult for me to get them sharp with a large file before I went to my grinder.  I don't soften them personally...tippit

KMG for flat grind but I use a worn out 120 grit belt for the edge.

 

[Firstarrow]

Tippit,
Could you please show a photo with a WW or snuffer on the belt?

Thanks & I look forward to meeting you all in Pittsburg

[joebuck]

Tippit....my wife is on me now for shaving my arms!!!!...i am scared it's so sharp it would cut through the luggage. But i'll try to bring one.... I think Tom Mussato has a video somewhere he sharpens one exactly like I do except for the heating....there is alot of us SnufferTamers out there

[JC]

Jeff, when you said grinder, I thought of my lil 8" bench grinder. I fergot I was talkin to a bladesmith...that's that monster machine you got from Doug Campbell isn't it? That's a serious piece of gear. I've had that same issue with WW's: one blade softer or harder than the others, makes for a somewhat lopsided head when done on a flat file. I know a belt sander wouldn't be as precise but would that work as well? I know Terry and some others do that with woodsmans and it works for them. Do you change belts and go down to a finer grit? What's the start to final grits that you use? Always interested in new ways to sharpen.

I wonder if we could figure out a way to get that super fine finishing powder joey sent me on a "empty" belt? That might be the best of both worlds.

[tippit]

JC,  Like I said, if you're not planing on becoming a bladsmith, this ain't a very inexpensive way to sharpen a broadhead   :eek:  The belt on that picture is a 50 grit.  What I use for a broadhead is a worn out 120 grit...more like a 400-600 grit.  When you're finished, you can see your smile on the edge or the bear's big eyes!

A belt sander is much harder to use cause most are too fast.  My grinder can be slowed way down for better control.