Don Thomas PBS mag letter

[Morning Star]

Biggie, I knew you'd be along shortly.  Do you love to hate me?  :D  

Tenfold huh?  You got a spreadsheet with some figures for me?

I'm hoping the sustainable funding makes it, because it will be based off of sales tax.  As of yet, extremely little of your mentioned economy boost has done anything for our natural resources other than tie them up from residents.

We are taking actions for the resident's future. Nothing will happen fast.  With a little forsight, hope and hard work maybe we can prepare Iowa to be a place for everyone.  That's what I'd like to think.  It's a work inprogress, obviously not progressing as fast as most people want, but that's life.

[vermonster13]

Once sales tax starts funding the DNR hunters will lose a great part of their voice in how it's run. Everyone will be paying a share of the budget so everyone gets a say so to speak. Be careful what you wish for.

[Brian Krebs]

Well see in Idaho; the money from tag and license sales goes into the general fund; from which the money for the fish and game gets its funding.

And your right Vermonster; the Fish and Game here has a long practiced way of operating.
 They make a decision about what they are going to do.
  They hold meetings and workshops to discuss the cleverness of their plan.
  They ask for public input.
 Then they do what they decided to in the beginning.
  I rememeber one meeting when our fish and game department was discussing with us the next seasons rules. Thing was; I knew people in the department; and the rules had already been sent to the printers to be printed up.

 Like what we said had any bearing on what they already were printing up.......


 So our fish and game could give a hoot about appealing to hunters needs; and wants; they have to satisfy the legislature; and their friends with money. NOT we hunters !!  

 I would like to see existing rules enforced. Like about ATVs on public land; and misuse of funding; and hey do these people who are charging huge hunting and leasing fees- pay taxes for the tips they are given; for the money they haul in from leasing?

 I watch these hunting shows in Africa and how the native people are allowed to go with the hunter and track the wounded game; and skin it; and carry it out; and know what? Some day it will be us next to some grinning fat cat that somehow waggled the right to hunt from US.

 I see guys now that file a mining claim at the end of a closed to motorized vehicle road; and never shake a pan for gold; they charge their buddies to drive back in with them to hunt where the average Joe could not get out an elk.

 I see ranchers feed the elk all winter for several consecutive years; and trade dirt for high quality public land that turns from being a place to hunt... to no trespassing signs with huge homes on it.

 Why should I pay what I do for my 3.5 acres; when I pay more than a person with 20- if they run a cow on it and label it 'agriculture land' for the tax break? And that happens with thousands of acres too. They make a ton; pay less taxes; and we are deprived of the chance to buy land because their practice drives prices up.

 I have seen bare dirt; where there WERE grasses; on state land; and the state leases it out for grazing; knowing full well the cattle will drift over to forest service land to feed. Forest service land where the cattle compete for food with wildlife.

 If you have ever seen what 2000 sheep in a flock can do when the sheep herder stops over night in an area- it would make you sick.

 Those sheep herders are paid squat; are ussually from Peru or Spain and the owner of the sheep lives in a mansion and drives a lexus.

 The priority is letting the fat cat get fatter; while wildlife suffers. And with it our hunting opprotunities- on PUBLIC LANDS.

 The thing we CAN do is attack those things that need be attacked. And we need to !!

[Biggie Hoffman]

We are taking actions for the resident's future. Nothing will happen fast. With a little forsight, hope and hard work maybe we can prepare Iowa to be a place for everyone. That's what I'd like to think. It's a work inprogress, obviously not progressing as fast as most people want, but that's life.

Morning Star, NOW you're talking!

I understand the frustration from both sides, really I do. It just seems funy that many on here doing the whining are the same guys who have no problem coming down here and hunting on OUR leases. Land we've leased to make a bowhunting only place so we can have some game to get after.

We can admit here that all hunters don't have the same philosophies and ethics. We've all argued on Tradgang about many topics. So, in order to have a good camp with like minded hunters, you lease a place, take care of it the way YOUR group sees fit. Hunt the way YOUR group wants to hunt. Drink Coke or Crown whatever YOUR group is most comforatble with. Pray at meals or not. Shoot big deer or small deer.....there is no other way to control the options that YOUR group desires.

[DRR324]

It's been hinted at a few times but one word comes to mind for me: PRIORITIES.  Gene mentions it in his book.  Unfortunately, if we all chose to save our pennies and hunt where all this discussion is about- it just adds the supply and demand issues.  My wife and I both work full time jobs to raise our family.  Yes, we spend vacation time traveling to summer softball tourneys for our oldest daughter to pursue her dream of pitching in college.  I still have managed to hunt MO for the last 2 years, but that will not be the case for awhile.  Cost of gas, and everything else in life is making me change my priorities and use the money for family.  It all stems from the mighty dollar and those trying to make more of it.  The rich will continue to get richer- and the rest will have to figure out how to survive.  Farmers/ranchers have found out that they can charge people to hunt- and make more money... not an earth shattering deal for a small local guy.  But, as demand continues to skyrocket for large antlered game animals, the prices will continue to follow.  This will not change until the prices exceed what the normal guy will pay.  The rich won't care- they have the expendable income to pursue the antlers.  The rest of us will have to work more hours, get a 2nd job, whatever it takes to put some cash in the coffer for our hunting trips.
We make our own list of PRIORITIES- and spend our money accordingly.  Now, do I choose family or myself- currently family.....
When someone like Don speaks up- it certainly raises a few eyebrows, and puts a topic on the front burner- this only helps us all to debate the topic and begin to figure out how to correct some issues, thanks Don.

[Talondale]

I'm only on page 5 of this thread but I have to make a comment on what I have read so far.  What disgusts me about these sort of threads is the shades of socialism/communism and class envy that creep into the discussion.  I don't envy or hate the man who has the ability to make a good living.  There is no inherent goodness in being dirt poor or inherent evil in being well off.  To look after one's own interest or the welfare of your family is not bad.  To seek to own your own piece of land, and pay hard cash, earned by your own sweat/ingenuity/perseverance and sacrifice is something to be lauded. Whether you wish to emulate that is your decision.  I know many have talked about wanting to hunt the Sweat or Paradise and those things happen on private land, owned by someone(s) who paid for it by their effort, or a parent before them.  Many of us on here own our own land and YES we post it against others using it.  Is it because we are selfish or short sighted?  No.  Look, we all make our own choices, and some have more limited choices than others for a host of reasons. Some guys decide they'd rather live year round in an area that is "heaven on earth" even if it means making less money and having less opportunities and some chose to live near where money can be made and just enjoy nature in small segments.  I have my preference between the two but I don't begrudge either man his right to pursue his own dream.

This debate has been going on for the age of man.  The indian resisted the white man and his concept of land ownership, the mountain man resented the settlers, the cowboy resisted the fencing of the west, on and on.  I would love to buy a couple hundred acres and roam it freely but every year people move down here from up north and drive up the price of land so that only a select few can hope for that kind of land ownership.  These are people who exchanged an entire life in an urban setting for the hope of retiring to a rural life of ease.  Do I resent that?  Yeah, to be honest I do, but only to a point.  But I wouldn't exchange my life for theirs.
  Couching the arguement in a rich man/poor man scenary probably isn't accurate for the most part.  Certainly there are the Ted Turners and Corporate entities that buy up land but there's also collectives of middle to lower class people that band together to lease land.  Outfitters who's main customers are guys like who work with me that save year after year to go on an outfitted hunt maybe every other year or just once.  I don't blame them for wanting a memorable experience and to have something tangible to bring back.  Horn envy isn't always about ego or records (though a lot of it is) but sometimes it's just about the uniqueness of the experience and the wow factor.  Sure, a small game hunt, or stalk on a cow elk can be just as unique an experience but, to be honest, some guys can't see the subtle stuff and only recognize the obvious.  So for them a successful hunt is getting a big rack, or maybe just having a chance at a big rack.  That doesn't mean they don't enjoy shooting a small buck or doe here at home but they wanted to go somewhere they have a chance to shoot something different, something unique from where they live, and they are willing to work and save for it.

  Having said all that, I do think States have a responsibility to steward their natural resources for the use of every citizen BUT they will only act in accordance with how motivated their citizens are in making sure they do.  Whether that's navigable water laws or securing public access to public land, or securing more public land, I don't know, each State has to work out their own answers.

EDIT: As I read further I see some good comments against the use of the word greed and how it's always the other guy who is greedy.  Thanks for those.

[Morning Star]

It just seems funy that many on here doing the whining are the same guys who have no problem coming down here and hunting on OUR leases.  

Don't know what to tell ya other than it's not me showing up.  Maybe you should ask them why.  

[Lenny Stankowitz]

Very good post Talondale.
   

Here's a question for you all.  Is it really a matter of not having enough land to hunt or is it a matter of not having the land you WANT to hunt?  

I know here in Michigan, we have thousands upon thousands upon thousands of acres of State and Federal land that is open for anyone to hunt.  Is there a "booner" behind every tree? Not hardly, but there are adeqate numbers of game for all to be had. In many areas, they can't kill enough deer to keep the populations within the carrying capacity of the land.  We have roughly 300,000 licenced bowhunters and 700,000 firearm hunters in this state and it's not very hard to find places to hunt that you will never see another hunter...even during firearm season.  Sure, you may have to drive an hour or two or three but come on...  Yet I hear people complain year in and year out that there is "no place to hunt."

I have friends that go to IA, IL and MS every year they can get a tag and they have NEVER had a problem finding farms to hunt or even public land where they don't run into anyone else, not to mention they return most years with some VERY respectable deer.

I don't know what it's like out west, because I have never been there but this idea that there are no hunting opportunities left for the average guy...come on.

It may not be the farm next door, or within walking distance of your house.  It may not contain trophy class animals but from what I read on most of these boards, "it's the destination," right?

People think nothing of dropping a grand on a new bow (or two) every year or two but ask them to drive a couple hundred miles and you'd think you'd asked them for their last dime.  

In Mr. Thomas' area, they may very well have access issues that need to be addressed but lets not turn this into a "it's all about money" thing because it's not.

 
Lenny

[Biggie Hoffman]

Laddy, I don't know where you got the wealthy guys like Biggie line, but brother are you wrong.

Like DRR324 said, it's all about priorities. I've always had two jobs, one for my family and the other for my bowhunting passion. I decided as a sophmore in High School that I needed enough education in my life to allow me to do the things I wanted to do. If you're working (not you personally but anyone crying class envy) for $10 an hour and you're over 30 years old, you've made some bad decisions in life.
Me, I work 12 hours a day and usually 6 or 7 days a week so's I can afford my addiction. Ask any of my close friends, they'll tell you it's true. Heck, wehn we went to Africa, the day before we left I dumped my change bucket for pocket money!!

[Mike Brown]

Biggie, Like I said before most people love to hunt until it costs them money.

Just like they like to go to church until the collection plate gets passed.

[Doug S]

Again. IF it wasn't for the antler frenzy the cost for access on private land would be nill.
Iowa wouldn't have as much money though. If no one cared about antlers who would go to Iowa?
Leases would be defunked. Land owners would open back up for a hand shake.
We have caused it. Every time we buy a magazine or Dvd on big racked animals we help keep it going.
I am now an anti-antler activist. It's ruining the hunt.
Later